malumbu

I'm from a former market town, now part of a conurbation. House prices and the local economy are reasonably healthy. There are a few but not many pockets of urban poor. Fruit and veg picking when I was young was by kids and settled travelers. Assume that this will now be by Eastern Europeans. It is conservative with a small and large C. A pretty area with views out to Wales and the South West. Excellent transport links Yet the high street is dead, market long since gone, so to many of the pubs. I've seen links to Facebook groups 'celebrating' how dull the place is and others to some sort of 'reclaim the flag of St George' - not quite EDL. It was 60/40 Brexit. I really don't have any connection with the town of my upbringing any more and feel ashamed of it. The EU has nothing to do with the sate of the place. Can anyone convince me otherwise?

Probably best not to break down in France on a weekend in July. This is not an anti-France comment but a statement of fact. Mechanical advice is severely lacking. RAC wanted to scrap the vehicle in France as they said it was uneconomical to repatriate. Paid over ?200 to get it off the motorway - first breakdown company suggested it was ok to continue the journey. By the time the second came along the engine was seized. The money is purely to get it off the motorway, not recover it anywhere useful. A bit of luck making Chatres to get to Paris by train for the final quarter final, and that we were so close to a Peugeot dealer (being a Citreon Berlingo van) and that a young and helpful chap had good enough English (my technical French isn't good enough). Managed to cut a deal with RAC to get it to Caen, and then my policy to get it back from Portsmouth. Hats off to Britanny Ferries for towing it on and then pushing it off at Portsmouth. The final recovery in France was awful - three hours late, a breakdown truck that was in worse condition than our van, a driver who clearly wasn't a professional driver, took 40 odd calls on his phone, changing gear with the wrong hands, didn't have a map and couldn't work the sat nav so we ended on the wrong side of the estuary. Great to hear of others experiences breaking down in Europe. Ie the bit on the other side of the channel to our small island.

Not long haul but I really fancy Georgia.

I was going to post to apologise for my long rant yesterday having just returned from France and a bit tired and emotional. But having returned to work found that none of the anger has subsided. Thinking back to my brother in law two of his kids worked in Europe in tourism in their 20s. What a selfish arse.

Nasty piece of advertising but this was about illegal immigration. And... despite the failure of delivering promises was it really worth the risk of harm that leaving could result in (ie a disproportionate response to what could still be seen as something that the politicians could do more to sort?). Good timing of thread as if you don't mind me broadening (and apols as this has no doubt been discussed before) Did (a) Cameron lie on reducing net immigration (b) was he poorly advised (my take) © How was he going to achieve it

I had lunch with my sister and brother in law on the Sunday after who were in equal shock/depression/anger as me. I questioned how my older sister voted expecting to hear 'leave' (coming from Tamworth - sorry this is how I feel) and heard she voted stay but her husband voted leave. I've just spent a week with him in France, I know that he is a xenophobe and has some sense of 'British superiority'. He and his family travel in Europe on holiday and I sense they take in none of the culture. There was an undercurrent of despising the French with the odd stereotypical comment made. I sensed that he hated their food and took in none of their culture. I kept my powder dry but had a big argument after the Wales match that he had trashed our future on what appeared to be having a bit of fun. He just came back with all the arguments of the Brexit campaign in one liners. It was made worse that he'd actually read stuff. Now this all sounds like me staring down my nose at him and me looking like a snob. Or the London intellectual political classes that he acused me of being ("you lot are just sore losers"). We come from the same area, same background (he went to a grammer shcool, me a scummy comp). I chose to better myself in many ways. All those that I have vague connections with from my home town/school on Facebook will be going. My Green friends who were part of Jenny Jones leave campaign are no longer friends (there is other stuff here I hasten to add). Vague contacts from school and my home town on Facebook will all go. So sad that this has polarised feeling across the country but so be it. I've never never blanked friends for their political views. Came close with one who voted UKIP to stir things up but she also voted to leave so that is that too. I'll have to work out how to handle my brother in law but it has made me see things how they are.

Just come back from France. I'd posted elsewhere probably on the Brexit thread about my worry of the perfect storm ('Leave' and then seeing England in Paris). I would have happily lived with the second, but at least I didn't have the two. Bit of a dull wet day in Paris, got lost in the rough bit of St Denis and only found the more fun part of town close to the match. Hanging around the stadium two hours before kick off would have been truly awful (about as pleasant as outside of Wembley. Was sitting just behind the Iceland fans who were immense. A great atmosphere around Paris before hand and in the 20 minutes before kick off inside the ground. Dunno what the clapping was about but great fun to join in. Hats off and so sad that France were clinical in the first half, with three goals maybe avoidable. All credit that they kept on going. Lovely stadium too, and brill public transport links. And whilst this may all sound anti-French their fans were good as well, and very rowdy (but good spirited) in town afterwards. I did joke with a few Icelandic fans about nicking our tunes and that they shoud be doing Bjork or the Sugercubes (with my own bad rendition). So much better than how many of our lot would have behaved. There were a few English arses in the Irish pub on the left bank but not great in number. And then on the RER (train) afterwards an arrest. Why is he being arrested I say? Because he was a cnut say his friends and had taunted the police about Agincourt and World War I. I say you should get your history right mate, the value of a secular republic, and that in some respects for the masses winning the battle of Waterloo was not a good thing as the poor paid for it in England (I also said to read up on WWI and II). He says how great the monarchy is, and how we will bounce back with trade deals with the Chinese and Russians. I apologise that many of the older generation has let the younger generation down, and then bade him good wishes as he got off at Gard du Nord to return to his small island, whilst we went onto the great joys of Chatres. So why are so many England fans arses? Would have happily (and disappointed not to have been able to do so) supported the Welsh and Irish. And my biggest cheers was in the Breton pub (in Brittany) seeing Volkes on telly head in the third. As well as James Chester clearly being the best defended in the competition. malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hooray - I get to see Ireland vs Iceland in the > quarters. Ireland fans songs are great. Does > anyone know any Iceland ditties (apart from mum's > gone to Iceland). > > Used to work in an Irish/West Indian pub near the > Villa. Remember some great pop songs of the day > on the jukebox and soul/reggae but they also had > some dreadful Irish novelty pop songs. Can't > remember any of the names.

Well they do and we don't. Damn cheating continentals eh?! I thought this sort of envy had been exoricised after the 0-4 in South Africa. Apologies for jumping down your throat. I am a bit sensitive at the moment to relations with our good friends in Europe.

Thanks for making me laugh rahrahrah with your analagy. Not a lot to laugh about recently, just lots of depression. rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Voting to leave, really isn't voting for anything. > It's voting against something. That is literally > all the disparate bunch of miscreants leading the > leave campaign had in common with each other - the > fact that they didn't like the EU. Well fine, but > that is like travelling in a plane that is > uncomfortable and expensive and has a stop off you > would prefer not to have to make and so saying [[[[ "i > don't like this", opening the door and jumping > out. ]]] > It's clear that they all have wildly different > (although universally half formed) ideas about > what would happen next. It's really not good > enough. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is > today berating the government for not having a > plan for what would happen post-Brexit. Do none of > the Leavers feel that perhaps they should have > been thinking about next moves before encouraging > us to all jump from that plane?

Not allowed to call it Champagne. As that has to come from the Champagne area. And at the same time before you get on your high horses Melton Mowbray pork pies have to come from Melton Mowbray. Funny how our friends over the water have been much better ar protecting their national idenities. Nowt to do with Brussels. In the Germany World Cup the country insisted that local beers had to be avaialble rather than rolling down and dying as we did in the Olympics. Called big business, and passive consumers. Nowt to do with Brussels. Your right, I need to get off this site PDQ. Looking forward to compulsory smoking back in the office and groping younger staff. Back to the good old days eh? Right, off never to come back

I am just getting angrier. I did my philosophical bit on Friday. At least there is a thread where I can express this. I don't want to calm down. I just shift my blame on varous parties - Cameron for a gross error of judgment, and being frightened to take on his own party, Johnson for zero priciples and naked ambiton, Corbyn and those who voted for him, the poor labour general election campaign and the people who are saying "my relatives fought world domination by Germany, I've just done the same". I will lose friends. I do not want to visit my region of birth. I don't even want to stray outside the M25. Stay angry with me. I am visiting France tomorrow (I can still travel to mainland Europe and Ireland). I am so sorry.

?250k a year for his weekly Telegraph piece aint bad.

More on the mess we now have to sort our. Worrying that Brexit Ministers will be driving this. http://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/brexit-will-be-largest-legal-legislative-and-bureaucratic-project-in-british-history-says-former-uk-treasury-solicitor/ On a separate note not sure who is the architect for the break up of the union, Cameron or Johnson. Let's just say that it was lost on the playing fields of Eton. Can some person please scrawl on the leave posters close to the Harvester "oh my God what have you done"

Sorry that was all over the place. My reference to how confusing the EU was, was trying to show sympathy for the masses. On further reflection I need to vent my anger against Gove, Johnson and Hilton. I expect that Farage followers would have voted for Brexit however the debate had gone.

It was refreshing to hear at least one Brexiter is considering what they have done. Cutting off their nose to spite not only their own face but future generations. I've been through so many emotions in the last day and a half. I'm tired and grumpy. I've been impressed by many of the posts and face to face discussions with people who feel similar to me. I was trying to be philosophical and understand the views of the many who feel out of touch with the political system and have been affected as their communities change. Now I am angry at the ignorance and harm. I've had a lot do do with the EU for a number of years and it still confuses me. I recall issues about the Common Agricultural Policy yet barely a mention in the last few weeks. The Commission are slow, ponderous and bureaucratic. A friend couldn't stand the lack of structure and purpose in her post and left her secondment. How can we get political union without financial union. Loads of negatives here and I still don't understand it. When I went to a presentation with MPs and various top brass on protecting biodiversity the lady from the Commission was impossible to follow and confused me. Then the government gave their position and it was clear that we can't be trusted on the environment. This wasn't my road to Damascus. I was never going to vote any differently. Just with all the fugg about how it operates we failed to get the benefits over.

I sharpen my own chisels but you need a proper guide unless you are good enough to do freehand. I'll keep you all posted. Years ago a bloke called and sharpened things for us but it was not that professional.

It's cheesy but it's cheered me up

How about a thread entitled who'd be best as the next PM. Is Rees Mogg the chap who went out with a Cheeky Girl. If so he'd get my vote. And Teresa May, well there is a good song there. Teresa May, you should have stayed at home yesterday. We are the cheeky girls... Gotta get some joy....

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > WorkingMummy of course I have empathy for you and > others who have/will suffer as a result of this > decision. It was never going to be easy, and as I > have conceded multiple times on this forum, we > have a tough few years ahead for everyone and we > cannot underestimate the road ahead. I can only > imagine it is devestating for those directly > affected, but it's early days and we cannot be > sure what will happen so do not lose hope. > > The EU may well try and make brexit difficult, it > may have to prevent a growing backlash in other > countries tempted by the jump ship mentality, who > knows? Either way, we have to make this work. > > In terms of some people being cavalier, I think > you perhaps misinterpret the absolute feeling of > isolation and resentment in the poorest regions of > England. Stakeholders in this EU project, many of > whom have qualified for regional donations to > support deprived communities. They have a great > deal of personal attachment to this vote, some are > below the poverty line and have desperately been > waiting for this day to finally have a voice. So > as much as I respect and appreciate your > predicament, don't underestimate or dismiss the > similar position others have been in for some > years now. > > Louisa. Can't you just have your own thread Louisa "over the moon that we are leaving the EU" and then your friends can join you. You can then leave this discussion to the majority of us who just want to figure out how it could have all gone wrong, and how on earth we can move on. Now I am commpletely flipped off but fortunately do have some other mattes to focus on in my life, even through this surreal fugg. I'd love to ask if you have any interests but that would be churlish and invite a reply. So why not set up that separate thread I am suggsting and I promise not to even look at it or I will eat Paddy Ashdown's hat it I react otherwise.

I'd prefer Trump. Yes things are that bad. Time to get behind Jessa (Corbyn not Clarkson)

If we'd had a 52/58 the other way around we would have got a clear message that too many people were isolated from Westminster, too many people had real concerns about immigration (and perhaps some other issues), and that we very much needed to do a lot of rebuilding of society and trust in our leaders. We got the same message with the result, yet we no longer have the influence to force fundamental change in the EU, we have the mess that is now the Tory party, the liklihood of some nutter of a PM, and all the damage that Brexit will lead to. Did all of those who voted out want all of this. I doubt it. PS Louisa - none of this is critical of the motives of many of the people who voted no. Perhaps it is time for you to back off whilst we lick our wounds, consider damage limitation and try to move forward.

Thought that would get your attention. There is a knif sharpener Sharpsmith in SE22 - anyone used them? Get fed up of Garden Centres shrugging their shoulders, in particuarky one of the big ones in SE23 just telling me to buy new garden tools. I'be got some proper British Sheffield made shears. https://www.yell.com/biz/sharpsmith-london-7632268/

Hooray - I get to see Ireland vs Iceland in the quarters. Ireland fans songs are great. Does anyone know any Iceland ditties (apart from mum's gone to Iceland). Used to work in an Irish/West Indian pub near the Villa. Remember some great pop songs of the day on the jukebox and soul/reggae but they also had some dreadful Irish novelty pop songs. Can't remember any of the names.

Saw Paul Brady the Irish folk singer at a 100 year celebration of the Irish martyrs. Most of his songs seem to be about how badly the English treated the Irish and the nationalist cause. He even joked that he played at a Queen's 90th birthday event and his daughter, who llved in London, was worried that he would offend her maj saying to him "no dad, it's not like this any more, we all like each other nowadays." Nothing wrong with a bit of national pride as long as it doesn't come with superiority and xenophobia. I'd never dissected the lyrics on Flower of Scotland but it is about giving the British army a kicking (amd lost of Scots were in the British Army). To me it is a nice proud sing a long. And Bread of Heaven. And Waltzing Matilda. And Molly Malone. Don't feel the same about GSTQ, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory. Swing Low is a real odd one. Perhaps I am being too precious. I did start a thread on a new national anthem where I favoured the South Afican one. Can we compete with this? http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/10-rousing-songs-you-mood-6774715 The Levellers, the Clash, Oasis??

Watching a team that that are better known for defending rather than creativity, I know that we will lose most times at the Emirates because the Arse have the talent to unlock our defence. That should have been the case last night. You can see the world half full at ITV did, or the reality check of BBC sport that put a disappointing display into context. Did we win one cross into the penalty area all night? That was of course the crosses that cleared the first man, and that didn't clear the last man. Not too many of these Hey ho, if it is England/France then it should be more entertaining. And not all England fans are those that I tend to stereotype. Just on previous experience - Cologne when England were arriving and Manaus when England were leaving - there was an unpleasant atmosphere in town.