StraferJack

For example, in the viruntly anti catholic thread re abortion and the woman who died in Galway, I don't recall your contribution quids? And yet there I am banging away about the backwardness of Ireland and from you? Nothing I do the same here? And all you do is complain how Catholics and Muslims get a free ride It doesn't really lend any credibility to your arguments

A) the phrase "just asking" is the preserve of idiots. Just a step up from "just sayin" B ) if you want to bring up other religions the do the honor of answering my previous point. And also recognise you are strawmanning just a bit How many women are or aren't allowed into a mosque is a topic of discussion. None? Well blow me down with a feather, religion shows yet again how backward it is But here we are talking about the establishment and its exclusion of a whole gender. If you are religious it's ultimately your choice. But when it comes to legislature OF THE COUNTRY WE LIVE IN , and people are excluded that's something else

Am I missing something then? Bishops of the COE have 26 places in House of Lords? Women are not allowed to be bishops? So, that's 26 places denied to women in the upper chamber because of their gender, no? Granted its not a shining beacon of equality anyway but not sure what I'm getting wrong with my assertion ?

And let's take a moment to look at that recent/current crop of Chelsea players By even the mercenary standards of 2012 premiership standards, they take some beating don't they. I think they willed themselves to win the fekkin CL to spite managers, media, fans If they had a supportive manager for a couple of seasons they wouldn't have roused themselves Talented maybe, odious certainly Do winners always have to be nice guys? No, but when you have such a concentration of egos, a concentration to surpass they brashest foxtons, then judgement is warranted

http://www.churchofengland.org/our-views/the-church-in-parliament/bishops-in-the-house-of-lords.aspx

"but the FA will inevitably be accused of sweeping it under the carpet, whitewashing (boom boom) and hypocrisy. " Not by any significant number I don't think... I think the bulk of mistrust will be directed at the current crop of Chelsea players and whatever odd hierarchy exists there

First paragraph of quids post I agree with but this "Meanwhile, intolerant, bigoted, unplaesant Catholicism and Islam march on, the latter especially, often uncriticised by secular liberals. just pick on the wooly old C of E... " Is either trolling or you believe it. Either way its horseshit. It's willful disregarding of the ongoing criticism of both. But for a self professed ideology hater you sure have some sacred cows of your own Regardless, the reason this Coe issue is of particular interest is because of its inbuilt role into the constitutional fabric of this country, unlike the other religions mentioned. 26 places in House of Lords, out of bounds to women for this reason alone

I?d take it ? but if I was Guardiola? I?m not so sure? he has ideas above being a gun for hire and regardless of any Chelsea talk about a ?new project?, he will know that he won?t be given long He doesn?t need the hassle, or the money. If RdM was allowed to see out the season to be succeeded by Guardiola, then there would be a degree of gentlemans agreement about it. But now I think he thinks ?why would I want to get bogged down in that nest of vipers? More I think about it the more I see the CL victory as the beginning of the end for Chelsea. Abramovich will have run out of road in a few years and will depart

RdM brought something to the table in the short term, but it's inconceivable that tactical brilliance and managerial genius is able to do in 5 months what no manager had previously done, so it seems fair to say that other factors were also at play in that astonishing CL Victory (the sheer pig-headedness and arrogance of an undoubtedly talented set of footballers being foremost IMO) So beyond that, did he have enough to warrant the job? He deserved a chance for sure. But given the club he works at he will have known that it needed more than he had to survive. Not that I'm defending Chelsea or Abramovich's actions - in the short term, averaging a manager a year might deliver the silverware required. But it's burning through managerial talent at a ferocious rate and there are only so many top top managers.

It was slightly tongue in cheek Otta. It wasn?t meant as a dig at faith (not this time anyway) more at how people choose to use that faith Given the discord in the CoE at present (with many existing senior figures despairing over declining congregations, as well as how things like this vote play with the public), wanting to become a bishop in that organisation seems like a dysfunctional way to utilise one?s faith or calling The church now faces several more years of to and froing on this ? one suspects it will eventually happen, but by that time will anyone care? Will Bishops still have an automatic place in House of Lords? Will congregations be even smaller?

Ridiculous decision obviously On the plus side, what intelligent woman would want to join such a moribund organisation anyway?

"the Internet scares me a bit. So many stoopid people just regurgitating stuff they know sweet FA about. Sort of democratic but at the same time depressing. " Isn't it the people who scare you then rather than the internet? It's a bit like local businesses who blame the forum for bad worth of mouth spreading, instead of realising they have a chance to listen to the local population. They don't have to like what they hear and what they hear may well be stooopid, but it's still who they need to listen to if they want to adapt

Good post. Want to buy you a drink now (but I'm at home with chickenpox baby, so probably not wise)

And as these people are marching, this is what they are up against Posted around o connell st today http://twitter.com/horganjonesjane/status/269186273774809088/photo/1

Audrey, I really do agree with you on so much here. But surely enough is known about this case for it to be a non-dry legal "let's wait and see". I'm not saying individuals or hospitals should or should be culpable. It's not a witch hint. I don't want innocent people implicated But Ireland has to change & And enough women today in Dublin seem to find it easy to imagine what it would be like in pain for three days,requesting intervention only to be refused for whatever grounds http://twitter.com/universitytimes/status/269839344850857984/photo/1 This is potentially country changing? Sitting on a fence just seems odd

Brave and harrowing first post Reading. Not many people would do that But the circumstances aren't quite the same are they? And, putting aside both cases, what are your views on Irish legislation re: abortion?

Excellent post? Or a dubious claim for moral high ground? If Ireland had different laws that woman would be alive today. Do we get it yet? Forget the hospital or medical staff involved. If my partner was to find herself in this situation I would be worried about her health. If you were in that woman's situation and you asked for 3 consecutive days to have the soon to be dead foetus removed and nobody would, you would sing from a different hymn sheet Cards on the table.. Are some people really interested in due process or are they really interested in preserving the current legislation in Ireland?

She was 17 weeks pregnant http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html

Onthedge I don't believe Ireland as a nation is that ignorant. (Statement of the obvious maybe) But I do encounter pockets of such ignorance both when I go back and when I meet some expats here I remain convinced Ireland is on an upward trajectory. But would SOME small minded people hide behind the church and state in a case like this? I think so And I hope I'm wrong. I hope there is more to this case. But those pockets remain... Like Japanese soldiers refusing to believe ww2 was over I know I have come down heavily on the side of the reports to date. And I could be massively wrong. But the fact remains the church does have too strong a hold on the state in Ireland. And that has to continue to change

Ejth What is the real issue they have? Can you quantify it? Is it putting x% of other sellers out of y% of income? Is it tarnishing the brand? And did they enlighten you as to where so many non official sellers get so much pristine stock of magazines?

That's a good point Audrey But those institutions have enjoyed large and stubborn pockets of support. If a referendum was held last month about abortion for example, who would have won?

Ruth You say that like ALL butt-hurt slanging is a bad thing ... ;-)

9) did a google and find a couple of references but nothing explicitly stating the premise 10)you are suggesting active admission. I don't know anyone who would say "I would have done the same". But passively " I agree with her" is more common Anyone who has been party to abortion debates in Ireland knows how hysterical it is. Compared to the rest of western world, on this issue they are backward. How is that even up for debate? The debate going on in Ireland since shows the country wants to move on but that established forces (the same ones against contraception and divorce) are dismissing these views. As they always have done.

Re point 10.. Really? Any cases I could learn from? Re point 9. It's true. I do know some wrong 'uns. But you are saying you don't?

"shaunag, Straferjack is Irish." That used to be sooooooo much more obvious when I posted as Seanmacgabhann