StraferJack

Do you mean when someone says "they were doing everything in there power" to be killed, I am saying that's an overreaction and is victim blaming? Then yes It doesn't sound from the op there was any danger. They were able to id the child's age ( or at least tried to. Why if they couldn't see?) Nothing happened here. It's someone going ott with a new thread

And by "problem" I mean the degree of culpability in causing death Not wearing lights is culpable but not actually cause of death Bad driving is culpable but is the cause of death

If a motorist was driving along a road with no lights on, he or she would still not deserve to be accused of being doing everything in their power to kill people Again, as a driver I have eyes and would clock that car in front of me ( and wonder why they haven't got lights in) Accusing them of doing everything in their power to kill people is wrong And it's not a cyclist v driver thing really. ( other than the driver will always kill the cyclist and not the other way around, in any given collision bad enough) Bad driving is the problem. Not luminosity

Tell us loz. What exactly is "wrong" Endangering lives? Who is going to take those lives? Drivers not laying attention And you want to blame the potential dead guy? Jesus

Like other travel offences (parking fines/ speeding fines) the offence itself shouldn't warrant harsh penalties Such is the ubiquity of offences tho I can see why the crime itself is being treated ever more harshly. If fewer people did it, and it was an occasional offence then maybe As it is everyone thinks they are a special case

Maybe legally But it ain't how I drive. You?

Who is standing a child on the road at night? Nobody Is walking on the side of the road in normal attire at night a bad thing as well now? Really ? Wearing reflective gear at night might be advisable, but as a motorist you are responsible for anything you hit. Things don't appear out of nowhere, even without reflective wear. How fast are you driving that you can't see movement on the road? Me? I would probably wear reflective lights. Probably. But somehow I don't think this guy was doing everything in his power to have himself and his daughter killed I'll go out on a limb and say if asked he wouldn't even be neutral. He definitely wouldn't want that to happen I drive at night. I observe. Nobody wearing normal clothes is going to get killed by me

If you could see the child well enough to guess its age to within a year, I'd say they were plenty visible to anyone. Why so angry cedges? Sounds close to victim blaming "Everything in your power to kill.." Strong stuff.

Girl, are you a wed Anderson film because you look absolutely stunning but I can't see this going anywhere

Give it ten years otta

Alas dulwichb&b I don't know. I used to live close to her but no more Could be a mouthy moo sometimes mind you

I know a chav with a law degree. Think she's quite handy (Edited to add there will be a lot of people reading that who won't know who I'm referring to and not just plucking the c word out of the air.... So trust me when I'm not aiming that at any societal group)

bah - thought someone was starting a thread about LCD soundsystem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrwTi_Fpiy0

Having suffered both for a couple of years, I prefer Chuggington. If I had to choose. But both are godawful

israel first sent a text to journalists claiming that the school was destroyed by Hamas rockets falling short they later withdrew that and said it was Israeli fire - but it does rather undermine the claim that Hamas refused to allow people to leave - who would they have got the warning from if as Israel first claimed, it was Hamas rockets falling short as BNG says abosultely NOONE is saying HAMAS are squeakly clean.

isn't the CIF part of the site where people like us fancy having a go and writing the sort of nonsense we write here, scrub it up and ask them to stick it online?

The name and the spelling always stuck out on the old 176 buses when I first moved to SE London - I always ended up saying it in Pauline Fowler's voice

madness EP current thinking with us is to fly and (maybe) hire a car rather than face that OMG I'm actually horrified at the thought I mighthave to do it one day

at the Paaaaawwleeeeeene Ahms

Any time I think about the coach/ferry from Swindon back to Cork in the 80s I think "did that really used to happen?" 4/5 hours to Fishguard on a coach holding open at ferry station - often including searches at 1am or something That ferry for another 4/5 hours Coach for another couple of hours throw in the number of times coaches broke down and waiting for replacements in freezing snow, or tides wouldn't allow crossings so we had to sleep overnight on the coach just to go home for a week!

All moot unless the place gets Louisa's blessing anyway

Calvary defintely NOT along similar lines - far bleaker but very powerful (according to those who have seen it - I'm not one of them, much as I want to)

"you can recognise that, for as long as Hamas attacks continue, any Israeli govt that doesn't retaliate will be replaced by one that will" is that a fact? I'd swear I have heard similar arguments before. And they were wrong. I don't for one moment accept this one As long as Israel continues to expand they will face resistance - that seems reasonable to assume? I doubt any other county would behave much differently (religion or no) Unworthy? How so? People who said that about America had it coming were wrong, weren't they? Am i saying something different?

don't you think that's the wrong direction of travel Steve?

DaveR - wow. Just... wow