StraferJack

"Gives flexibility to all those concerned " god I hate that word - flexibility It might be true in some cases - but not everyone wants flexibility. Some people need security so they can (personal level) plan a family for example or business level (plan a business) What these short term leases are for, if the hope of the landlord that a national chain will show up. They see that as more money and more security So as a local business, your business-plan and capital reserve can be swallowed up only to be evicted Not much flexibility in that

Do you have any idea why Hamas are firing rockets? I know quids says because they want the state wiped of the face of the earth forever but lots of lunatics say things that don't amount to much DIFFERENT SITUATION I KNOW - but IRA were never ever going to surrender until a 32 county Ireland right?- but guess what? Dialogue was open and ongoing and brought about a more peaceful situation So for now, let's put aside that particular claim and let's look at what has been happening to Palestine http://images.alarabiya.net/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469.jpg At what point to you think Israel will stop expanding? Rockets or no rockets?

"side endlessly congratulating itself on how clearly right it is and getting 9mock) indignant about stuff." " that is gross misrepresentation as well - this mock-indignace. Who exactly are you to call what's happening, and reaction to it "mock"? i see no self-congratulation either But you can just throw these accusations around and then claim the reason you aren't engaging is a "lack of debate"???

But given Israels's pretty-sound defences - why not use that to hold-back? If Hamas continue to lob rockets, then fatalities aren't really going to rise, but the world can just look at one country firing on another and the moral high-ground holds and Hamas have no place to hide there then remains all of the point DC raises - but surely easier to discuss them without hundreds and hundreds of civilians dying for no reason.

"> That's pretty lame Otta If you say so, you're boss. " ye'see that's just snide - you call people out for not kowing they are born and moral BS and we try and engage, but you come back with "youre boss?" Not two situations are the same - apart from the point in time were the conflic is so seemingly intractable that people say it's impossible - but there are similarities. When this all does end it will be because people start talking.

aioili was BB's intended word I think?

You think people are trying to show how clever they are?? Not knowing they are born? What does that even mean? That's pretty lame Otta It's another reason I'm happy to go with the Ireland analogies - because that WAS something most of us were part of and some people held the same "bad as each other/not getting involved" attitude then When people put pressure on South Africa about apartheid - was that just moralistic BS? Or did it play some part in the end of that regime? These situations all need external pressures to come to bear to make the participants cop on. The whole time IRA were bombing and the govt was saying "we will never talk to terrorists" of COURSE they were talking the whole time It was that ongoing dialogue which allowed both sides to inch towards the peace process I wish I could be so sure something like that is happening in Israel

"And a lot of what Quids said." lots, but not all? Open to ambiguity then...

to be young and a troll is bad enough - but to be hanging around here for year after year and still trolling? that's how you get your kicks? Weird

my commute from Sussex got a lot more painful for the next 4 years

"Then I double checked. It's utter nonsense." I'm finding I do that a LOT more these days...

"the simplistic anti-isareli position is, at best, simplistic and sometime smacks of something altogether more sinister......." did we ever find out what exactly the "something altogether more sinister" was?

it's not just the fact that hundreds of people are being targetted in front of our eyes on television, and the lack of condemnation from world leaders usually happy to condem other countries - it's the self congratulation from Israel What we are seeing isn't carnage but "unimaginable restraint" http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-israel-deserves-nobel-peace-prize-for-unimaginable-restraint-while-fighting-hamas-says-israeli-envoy-2004564 This from an ambassador? What would a hawk say? All this is going on and some people seem happier to bash usual suspects and social media? Or say that both sides as bad as each other? I really don't get it

the more you keep saying "as usual" or "usual suspects" the harder it is to listen to your arguments - was enjoying reading that post and then at the end the facetious brush off That de facto is important - many people at the time believe dthe Irish republic government were tacitly/covertly supporting IRA - certainly enough for a government such as Israel's to deem it hostile The State of Israel is unique in and of itself - so there isn't that much to compare it with. It was always likely that a brand new, artificially (however justifiable!) created state was going to struggle for acceptance amongst it's neighbours. Has it's behaviour been the sort which would change that opinion? If your neigbour behaved as they have, wouldn't you want them gone? It may be Hamas' current stated goal, but it's entirely possible to change that. Blitzing the neighbours isn't going to do it

There was some posting a few days back about how this hasn't changed public opinion of Israel but definitely in America it seems to have shifted. I'm hearing some American colleagues express opinions I don't think I would have heard before for sure

I really do resent being told I'm, black and white Israeli-hating when only one side is absolutely destroying 100s of lives, deliberately targetting defenseless people and buildings and issuing meaninless warnings to "leave" withing minutes if they want to live I condone not a jot of Hamas actions, but then given how useless they are (all things being relative) then I somehow can't find it in my heart to get quite as worked up about them. That doesn't make me black and white I would argue I'm more nuanced than people who continually haul anti( social-media/libera/smearing/usual suspects) into EVERY FUKING ARGUMENT But let's imagine a world where Hamas are defeated and/or realise that rockets isn't getting them anywahere - where does that leave everyone then? Do people think that both sides will be bale to go about their daily business with no need for aggro? or will the ongoing expansion of occupied territory provoke more hostilities?

Showing a bit too much of your hand there...

But that isn't true is it? Saying the weaponry isn't as sophisticated in no way explains just what is happening The comparison has been made before but if England carpet bombed Ireland because of its actions, would it be ok to say the ira were culpable? It's no solution to the problem. As Israel isn't actually suffering too much by way of casualty why aren't the answerable? I fail to see how the two sides are somehow being held as equally culpable

Seems like mere weeks ago several posters on here were defending Israel's actions. Does the lack of posting in here indicate a big/small shift in position, or are people just waiting to see how gaza actions finish up?

" at The Clockhouse once asked me to look after their baby who was asleep in a pram outside, as they drank and ate inside the pub, and would I mind "popping in if he wakes up". Not a HINT of exaggeration or selective editing with this? How far inside were they? Out of sight? 4 feet away so actually they were keeping an eye and being sociable with you?

"a fruit fiend and will consume his own bodyweight in strawberries if allowed to." it's the drive back I'd worry about This place isn't too far away http://www.flowerfarmshop.co.uk/pyo.asp

money well spent

Although this thread suggests you are correct pickle http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,88935,88939#msg-88939

Target gone longer than that I reckon. 8-9 years?

"There used to be an Oddbins in The Village I think" 100% correct - up until 5 ish years ago (these days time is very timey wimey with me)