Undisputedtruth

Ah, the world according to bankers, hey Damian. Manipulating the truth just to preserve their obscene bonuses.

Maybe it was fraud after all The above link gives the Economist their take on what constitutes fraud. Moving on, the Tories started the financial crisis time bomb during the mid eighties by deregulating the banks. Gordon Brown wanted support of the City in order for New Labour to become an electable force. Further deregulation of the banks was a convenient part of this deal. Funnily enough, George Osborne, as Shadow Chancellor, was asking for more deregulation of the banks in the year before the crisis started. Both Labour and the Tories have played their part in setting the right conditions before the banking bomb exploded. It's true Gordon Brown thought he had an end to recession by skillfully using immigration while the US had suffered a couple of recessions during the term of Alan Greenspan, one of America's greatest ever Federal Bank's Chairman. Shame Gordon didn't see the big one around the corner and to be fair no one else had seen it either. I followed the Banking crisis just before it started. Mainly because the interest on my mortgage had risen. Around May 2007, I couldn't figure out the true scale of the banking crisis based on foreclosures on the sub-prime market. In August 2007, I thought it was funny that banks couldn't trust each other in terms of lending and concluded that these idiots were going to cause a recession. By January 2008 I fully understood the true scale of the losses as soon as I learned gearing was used. Bankers are not above the law and hindsight is not a defence for fraudulent criminal behaviour.

I agree with the quoted italic text. It doesn't mean that I agree with other aspects of your points. I really find it shocking that you think that these banking criminals should be let off scot-free just because you they were making money. It's a bit like letting drug dealers off the hook because they made money while ignoring the misery these people have caused to others. Fraud is fraud, and is a criminal matter regardless whether a company is making a profit. There is mounting evidence that these bankers knew these mortgage security products were worthless before selling them off for a profit. That is fraud if you don't know EP. Yet these bankers expect to receive their bonuses as though nothing has happened. I don't buy that and given the mess they've created for the economy then there is no reason why they should not be subjected to criminal investigations. Only then can we get closure on the banking crisis.

EP I do agree that "more people need to hold their hand up and admit they were part of the problem than is currently the case". The sooner we can put these crooked bankers in jail the more confident we can feel about the banks putting their house in order. Blaming ordinary people for the financial crisis shows an extraordinary misunderstanding of the crisis. With regards to the fonts, I think it has more to do the with the font typeface.

Damian H Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Your comments are risible. Are you actually > saying that all those with sub-prime status who > took out mortgages are illiterate and didn't > appreciate that when you take out a loan you have > to pay it back???? Have you the slightest > evidence whatsoever to back up that position??? > Or any of the statements you make? Has it not > occurred to you that when a large number of small > scale deceptions and defaults add up you have a > major problem such as the sub-prime crisis? And > the allegation of 'greedy'? No 'greed' on the > part of those who said "Sod thbis, I can fiddle a > mortgage, get a house and worry about paying for > it later."??? > > You say bankers should be investigated for fraud. > What fraud specifically? Do you actually know the > meaning of the word fraud? Let me give you > something that would fit the definition - falsely > claiming a level of income you don't actually earn > in order to deceive a lender into giving you a > mortgage. THAT is fraud! > > You clearly have a need to engage in exactly the > type of scapegoating I have discussed in order to > exonerate the 'ordinary Joe' fom any sort of > accountability for his/her behaviour and and THAT > is plain disgraceful. > > You really should change your Username, you know. Damian H, you definitely need to do some research on the financial crisis. Here's what the New York Times have to say on banking fraud during the financial crisis. 3 Former Traders at Credit Suisse Charged With Bond Fraud To blame the ordinary people for the bank's role in the financial crisis just makes you look ridiculous, Damian. Hopefully jail is the best place for these criminals.

Bob, I'm so right

In those days it was programming using punch cards. These cards were sent to a nearby computer centre and the following week I received a pile of computer printouts. Yep, my teacher wasn't exactly happy with my first ever program. Fortunately for EDF my computer skills improved.

I don't think so Bob, I've written a similar program like yours when I was 13 and my teacher threaten to ban me from programming. To stop the loop you will need to add a condition with an If Then statement.

katie1997 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I can use Excel. Does that make me a computer > programmer? Excel has VBA. So the real question is can you use VBA?

Looks like BASIC with the program in an infinite loop, Bob.

No, computing programming. Quite easy really.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dreamweaver and Photoshop, eh? Didn't realise you > were an IT expert as well as a financial guru! Able to program as well.

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Fortunately UDT we have you with your exceptional > international financial skills to help us see the > light ;-) > > I can't believe Goldman Sachs ever let you slip > through their fingers... That may be true as I'm familiar with trading techniques and knew about leverage since 1999. Sadly, I do lack your skills in bullsh!tting people.

El Pibe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm just gutted he's discovered the font tag!! Not > a geek eh? I'm pretty good as most things from plastering to playing football. Hardly geek! I know Dreamweaver and Photoshop as well. I'm always looking for new projects so at some point I'll start a project to kick Hugo's ass. That will be fun. >:D<

Leverage The real problem was leverage where Banks multiplied their gains from the subprime mortgages security products but instead multiplied their losses. This multiplication factor could be either 10, 100, 1000 times - even more. No one really knows the true scale of the losses apart from the Banks themselves. The miss-selling of mortgages only accounts for a small part of the financial crisis. Now if you don't understand leverage then you will never understand the finnacial crisis of 2007.

How Banking Harms the Economy

Innocent victims of the subprime crisis

I don't get Mancini's stance that he thought the game against Everton would be easy. It took a bit a magic from Balotelli to beat Everton for the first time in 13 games.

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I used to be employed by the BBC. Not the real BBC as we all know but the British Bullsh!tter Company ran by Huguenot himself!

Damian H Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- But what about the millions of 'Ordinary Joes' who lied through their teeth to get mortgages and cynically exploited a lax financial system to get hands on properties they knew they could not afford to pay for? What about them? I am sure each of them would say they are small fry - too insignificant to have had any impact. Yet they lied and falisifed declarations of income nonetheless, significantly contributing en masse to the collapse of the sub-prime market which was the catalyst for the global financial collapse. I disagree. The 'Ordinary Joes' are the victims in this whole matter. Most of them barely able to read or write much less able to commit fraud on a massive level that caused a financial crisis not seen since the 1930s. The Bankers and Credit Raters did not carry out their full 'due intelligence' checks. Mortgage companies mis-sold their products in order to get their commissions. Why they didn't do they jobs properly? Because they were too frickin' greedy. Personally, the banks, credit rating companies and mortgage companies should all be investigated for fraud and forced to payback their ill gotten gains including bonuses. Blaming 'Ordinary people' is just plain disgraceful.

El Pibe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "I can't see Cameron scoring for England, can > you?" > I can't see Bent scoring for England either > frankly. Well Darren Bent has already four goals in eleven games for England and nine goals for the under 21s.

I can't see Cameron scoring for England, can you?

Darren Bent gets paid for scoring goals and so he deserve his pay. The problem here is that there is a culture of rewarding boardroom failure.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > It is daft to suggest that ?1m basic + ?1m bonus > is excessive for a CEO of a major company, > especially one who now has such a large > responsibility to deliver. A Prime Minister gets ?150,000 to run this country. So are you seriously saying that running a bank is more difficult to run than a country, Jeremy? RBS has a workforce of only 26,000 and yet you think it's right for the RBS Chief Executive to earn 20 times more than the Prime Minister. The NHS employs 1.3m people while their Chief Executives receives a ?150,000. The going rate for a bank's Chief Executive is excessively high considering the bank's sector share performances. And I wonder how much commissions goes to the headhunters for suggesting higher pay to Chief Executives. Edited to add the word than

Huguenot Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > EDITED > > Sorry katie1997, it was UDT who was talking RBS. > > He listed RBS share price and general problems > with business banking as reasons why Hester > shouldn't get his bonus. > > The first was undoubtedly part of his targets (but > don't leap to any conclusions about what that > target was, if he was under instructions to > downsize the business the share price target may > not have been higher). > > The second as a general cause would not have been > part of his target, although I understand there > was an RBS specific target related to this, and > that he achieved it. > > There were also targets about shedding staff and > cutting costs which he achieved. It may be that > the public don't agree with these targets, but > then that's why the public aren't running the > bank. LOL Hester is even behind in his disposal targets. Anymore excuses for rewarding failure, hey Hugo?