SeanMacGabhann

What do you think I'm surprised by antjen? The fact that it goes on? Nope The fact that politicians aren't aware? I disagree they aren't aware The only thing I'm surprised by is the lack of public outcry now the facts have been published I'm not as anti politician as many on here, but this isn't about them - it's the non-political figures. I have a hard time dealing with Vanessa Feltz, but the fact that she has been subjected to this by the NoTW absolutely repulses me. And yet the NoTW moralises regularly on teh conduct of politcians and others in the public sphere

"But cn you not see that when you post a deliberately emotive 'prejudiced' statement" Maybe I'm being slow tonight - but you (or Moos or someone) will have to point out which statement that was deliberately emotive prejudiced When I paraphrased "most of them" it was just that - the paraphrase of legions of indignant callers. But even if UK is getting the "most" refugees, i would argue that that isn't something to get upset about if the UK is big enough to deal with the most - that's all I haven't meant to be emotive on this one - I just wish other people (and I mean the wider debate not you quids) would take a breath and stop being SOOOO upset when they phone in to complain. "The most" just doesn't seem to be the most important measure to me An island of 4 million people getting proportionately more people than an island of nearly 60 million people seems to have merit - and I still disagree more with the island of 4 million complaining. I just wish people would stop complaining - it isn't really the thing that blights their lives

But I'm not saying the phrase "But the point is it's always the same argument - "it's not fair! why are they coming HERE??? Why can't they stay where they are or go somewhere else - we seem to be getting most of them"... is exclusive to any country - I'm saying it's the same everywhere I have listened to the debate. Be that minor or major EU countries. Or the US. So by definition it's that comlaint/phrase quoted above which is emotive - not anything I have said?

Where is AllforNun when you need him/her to complain about a media organisation burying a story?

Not sure I follow your post quids... I haven't band-ied around the Daily Mail at all - where have you got this from? As for little Englander, I' m sure I said - just a couple of posts previously that I despise my own country's attidtude to this more than I do the UK's And most of what I have posted is based on what facts I can find - which aren't as up to date as I would like How have I been emotive? I have said there is a wider discourse where people (far emotive than I) are spitting blood on a radio phone in saying "it's not right" how the UK is only country taking this many - when "this many" depends on how you look at it. And the UK isn't alone in this so I'm not overly happy about being accused of bandying around semi-accusations and Daily Mail isms

Yeah the UK get's a lot for sure But if the debate (the wider one, not the one on here) is to be useful it's no good radio phone ins and "mates" and newspapers talking about being swamped. Smaller countries will feel the effects more, and the UK is a long way from being the most "swamped" (on average, per capita, per GDP or whatever)

To clarify - I come from one of the minor EU nations - one that has traditionally been a nation of emigrants But they bitch like a motherf***** when it comes to immigrants I hate my countrypeople infinitely more than I get annoyed by some Brits complaining about immigration But the point is it's always the same argument - "it's not fair! why are they coming HERE??? Why can't they stay where they are or go somewhere else - we seem to be getting most of them"

why does it matter if you are a "major" or "minor" eu nation?

Michael Jackson Earth Song YouTube Clip showing Jarvis Cocker invading the stage (cringy, but he was my hero that night. I had already gone from ambivelance to annoyance with MJ but that night I went to hatred) Then, as he says, BBW became youtube happy and showed another example of someone trying to prick a public figures pomposity (but this time failing - marvelously!)

Totally keef! One of Prescott's finest moments The section in Andrew Rawnsley's book on the Blair Years which deals with the Prescott Punch is worth the money alone

I believe the EU laws on fruit size and shape are largely urban myth as well Jeremy Keef - fair points on data age. The first link I posted was for 2008. I assumed thereafter the rest was as recent but I am as interested as you in the latest info As for why would some countries make it harder than others - not all the countries are in the EU for starters are they? And even moving together as an "EU", each country still has it's emotive hotspots where governments have to be seen to "showing" the EU that they are listening to their people. I dunno... My suggestion that legislation was more "advanced" in other countries was speculation - perhaps they are as open as ever and refugees have discovered museli and yoghurt does not a breakfast make so come here instead. Or maybe keef's point that they know the benefits are easier to obtain or are better in some way hold sway... they still go through a lot to get them... not sure if I would have as much gumption

If other countries have been receiving proportionally more refugees it's a reasonable assumption to make that they will have made it progressively harder to enter those countries, and that the UK may be just catching up on that score But given that people were suggesting other countries weren't doing their bit....

Really silverfox? Most big companies will say in their contracts with employees that their phones will be monitored at work. Ditto customers to those companies. Anything else is a big no no. Are you suggesting big companies are listening in to your personal phone calls at home and on your mobile?

I'm not claiming their emotions are not genuine (although.. if pushed... if I HAD to... I might admit to suspecting some manipulation) But that's me being cold - let's take their emotion at face value - I still we should not be party to their grieving IMO. By being in public it is the start of a process which will see their lives corrupted by media and public noseyness...

Good correction red devil Given that Murdoch controls the news supply for a lot of people in the country it's possibly not surprising a lot of people may not know about it yet (which has long been an argument against his accumulation of media outlets)

MP's claim a whole bunch of sometimes ludicrous and sometimes legitimate expenses, amounting to not much more than what they should be payed as a salary anyway = a mass feeding frenzy of condemnation The mere suggestion of ID cards and the elected government tracking you = campaigns and righteous fury the News of the World (and effectively the Sun) go illegaly fishing for tittle-tattle by hacking people's phones, listening to their voicemails and reading text messages and not a peeep!! And your future PM Cameron actually defends them!!! What is the matter with people?? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/media/5785465/Police-examine-News-of-the-World-phone-tap-claims.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/08/murdoch-papers-phone-hacking http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/09/newsoftheworld-newsinternational http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8141884.stm Mail and Times seem less interested - gobsmackingly enough (my pc isn't letting me tag links for some reason - sorry)

Jarvis' stunt was a bit cringy, but let's not forget that Jackson's "people" tried to have him prosecuted and even claimed that he interfered/molested at least one of the children on stage I think it was Bob Mortimer of all people who sprung Jarvis from jail, him being a qualified legal bod and all - but the fact that such nasty accusations were thrown at an essentially foppish rogue, pissed and upset at the hijacking of the brits award always left a nasty taste As for people rushing to condemn him as a pedarist - well we might have our opinions but we don't know, and it doesn't show anyone in a good light to throw accusations like that at a dead person - anyone could do it to you if they took against you and you would have no defence. Let's see how this plays out is my tack on this one As for the wall to wall coverage - it's repulsive in every way shape or form. If anyone feels moved or touched by the kids mourning their "in-the-same-way-harry-is-charles "father" ", it would surely be better to wonder why the same family which pushed MJ himself when he was just a kid into the public light to such detrimental personal effect would repeat the mistake.. These kids have nothing to do with any of us but if we do care the best that can be hoped for them is they lead normal lives away from the ghoulish limelight which is surely now awaiting them

Ok, back on dry land now so, some figures on migration This is worldwide rather than EU based but still http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_net_mig_rat-immigration-net-migration-rate plenty of other European countries above UK there That's net migration to be fair, so immigrants as a percentage of a population http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_pop_imm_as_per_of_sta_pop-immigrant-population-immigrants-percentage-state or Asylum seekers per capita, shows Uk scraping into the top 10 http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_asy_see_percap-immigration-asylum-seekers-per-capita

I have tried several programs, but the one that seems to be most recommended is a freebie called, Handbrake http://handbrake.fr/ It has a bunch of presets including iPod as well That said, I haven't used it in earnest yet, because.. well, time and faffage really - but this looks well do-able

Jeremy are you sure Britain is the only destination? Or even the main one... I'm on a mobile so can't get hold of the research but any time I have looked at European league tables Britain is mid-ranking in terms of numbers coming in

Maurice, you are on FIRE this last couple of days - I doff my cap to you

they won't be able to get your number - they will be able to ring a service, ask for you and you will be contacted to see if you want to take they call I'm not worrying

thanks AuraCaught - that's good info Of course when you have restaurant chains (as described above) penalising staff who don't get enough tips through on credit cards then that takes morality even lower....

I think that's a fine idea outof and I think it has been mooted in the past

Still on a Clint vibe, watched The Changeling last night Stiff drink required afterwards - sheesh Good film tho