SeanMacGabhann

Go on then macro. . How does that work ? Practically. . Talk me through it. .

* bob* Its easy enough to be blase about the seemingly common experiences in london but to most out of towners MM'S itinerary is more interesting. Fed up as i am by the brick lane experience its still fairly intoxicating to someone from devon who has centuries old blah at every turn down there . . Borough market is also a tourist destination but only to a fairly small number. . And its a working place. . I would take them to a hill. . Greenwich in the south or primrose in the north. . It doesnt really matter how many other tourists are around. . The vista speaks for itself

Whilst not disagreeing with the factual part of your post DPF I wonder what your point is ? It could be read as "because they are from a specific demographic we dont have to worry to much about policy specifics. Just round em up " But i hope thats not what you meant. Does it really matter who does it? Surely "why" is more important than "who"?

cheap and easy line matthew123 - what does it mean? You make it sound like life is hard for all of us but only lazy scum with excuses bother to stab people - the rest of us work a bit harder? Surely a bit more complicated than that?

what an extraordinary post canubelieve - combining as it does a misunderstanding of what anyone has said, an order/threat to future posters and a simplicity of thinking which beggars belief First up - anyone who commits these crimes needs punishing. Simple As. No one is offereing to take them in or look after them But if we want to stop it happening in the future we have to look at the wider issues. Letting things get worse and worse and sending more and more people to prison ad infintum is a recipe for madness. That is why when some people talk about addresing the way society functions there is talk of looking at root causes. That doesn't mean giving people free passes - it means understanding why some societies generate more problems for themselves than others do. And it ain't about how stiff a prison sentence/introducing a death penalty is No kid is born with a predilection for stabbing other people - to get to that place a whole bunch of stuff has gone wrong. And you are talking about kids here. They may be street smart and they may be sly and they may be vicious - but they are not fully formed and they have been broken. You can ignore it and keep spending fortunes on prisons and dealing with crime AFTER it happens - or you can try and be intelligent about it

Good point well made eileen. Sorry about that

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It's not an official flounce there but close enough. And 100% spot on

Do you know what censorship is? I haven't seen any post removed or anyone banned for saying anything. What a ridiculous charge I am accusing some threads and posts as being curtain-twitching, boring, possibly damaging and very very very dull, and have called for them to be given their own section. Just as the family section was created and that was a success. I haven't heard many family members saying they were censored for it as for the accusation I just levelled - I have been called far worse on here. I have never cried censorship or foul Did you read this forum before you joined?

That'll be the Ireland I ran away from PGC... I still go for a chuckle - but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone!

I know how you feel Jim I started a thread saying how all these other threads were annoying me and do you know what? I had lot's of negative people telling me off for censoring them!! How negative is that?? Still tho - quite the accolade for *Bob*... the ONLY person to make you laugh out loud? Ted Max must be gutted...

The two main Goose Green fairs have come and gone for the summmer The 2 biggies in the area I am next looking forward to are the Lambeth Country Fair which is mid July in Brockwell Park and the Jerk festival in Horniman Gardens at the beginning of August (advice: get there early if you want food at the Horniman)

Strawbs, the most recent report Carnell dug up is here But the problem when you produce stats is that people then go "well you can't believe THEM" so it's a lose-lose If a report comes out in a years time to say that between Jan 09 and Jan 10 crime did go up I won't be surprised - as has already been said, periods of high unemployment bring higher crime rates But there is a reason I don't buy the South London Press - and if the current spate of threads doesn't abate it'll be the same reason I stop coming here. If people want to talk about it then fine but I like bignumber5's idea of keeping it in a single thread. Or the often mooted idea of a seperate room (although I know that's a hassle for admin and one he isn't keen on)

Ah shoot - now I have to go out to Bossman Give me 10 minutes

* chinks can of Export against Quids Stella * northlondoner - nah, I'm Irish. I have been loving the way you first moved down and have grown to love the place too - fancy a beer with me and quids? * proffers a Red Stripe *

Jimmy! A HG Wells fan! Who knew eh... As for some of the other comments If people weren't calling for fairly sever legislation on other threads I might be able to ignore them more easily and agree with statements like "these crimes don't make us scared"

pebs - sorry but the only thing I do know about you is your statement "another example of pseudo intellectual forum nonsense" what is anyone meant to infer from that? I haven't drawn a character profile of you - I just said you sound like you didn't like a lot of people on here which is fair enough from that statement I make no other judgement on you at all - although I clearly disagree on this matter

When did I say knife-carrying thugs were normal? I said the situation isn't getting worse like people on here are making out. Lets say there were 2000 knifings last year and lets say (for argument - I know it's not true) that there were 5 this year hell of an improvement right? But if 2 of them were in ED everyone would say the situation was much worse and Something Must Be Done!!! - Even though clearly a splendid job had been done. So the figures aren't that dramatic but the point remains There are many safe cities in the world. My point was with a heavy handed police presence like you desire And whatever people feel London IS relatively safe. It just is... As for pebs and You give the game away with "pseudo intellectual forum nonsense" - ie you already don't like quite a few of the people on here. Some things are worse some are better. I feel a lot safer here than I did in Wiltshire 20 years ago and that's a fact. And when I moved to London 19 years ago I had pretty much everyone I know tell me how dangerous it was (both people living in London and living outside) and the streets of London were much more sketchy then. And the food was much worse

i like Kel's way better But a lesson in manners in front of other passengers would have hit home harder

Hang on the "difference with" what is startling? Kids like that have always been on buses since I have been here - always And quoting clockwork orange isn't much use when the message of that book was not so much about violence but the way governments use violence to implement draconian measures If people don't like it, I'm in agreement with you. I don't like it either. But to say it's "worse" is wrong, even if it so happens that you personally have been a victim recently As we hit the proper end of the recession we WILL see things get worse - that's the way it's always been as well. You can't run anywhere to hide from it It's not some downward spiral tho

Keef, are you saying there is essentially no difference anywhere to the way animals are slaughtered? Because that's just wrong It's not a country by country - you can have a small village in England which has an enormo-meat-processing plant right next to a small, humane butchers The Eric Schlosser Book "Fast Food Nation" has a good section on the industrial processes in the US where the cheap labour are glad of when they get an order for meat to be shipped to the EU as EU regulations allow them to spend more time in prepping the animal - and basically not mixing as many different animals and shit into the same slabs. The meat is better, the conditions of the workers is (temporarily) better and the product we end up digesting is better. Mind you in that example the animal was probably not killed in a great way anyway.. As for halal and kosher - I'm not sure which is worse - inflicting unnecessary suffering on animals for profit (mass produced meat in the UK) or because of some made-up belief Some good stuff here even if it does focus on the animals and environment to the exclusion of the workers conditions And on a lighter note, Jonathan Coe's great novel about the 80s, "what a carve up!" has some great chicken mutation passages!

oh man I wish that was me I know how disorientating it can be when you are in an earphone-bubble, but whilst I help people with buggies all the time, someone behaving like that? On a Friday night... oh yes please... I bet she spends a lot of time giving out about society getting worse as well

ibilly - when you say "something seems to be going badly wrong" - what do you mean exactly? If you move back to Asia - the economic powerhouse of the 21st century, please be assured (and feel free to come back to me in 20 years time if I'm wrong) that the money pouring in to Asia will ensure the inequalities and consumerism which drive the problems you describe here will be more than felt in Asia as well

In the 8 years I have been living here if I have my window open I can hear, several times an hour, either: a) a helicopter b) a police siren c) an ambulance siren d) similar If people will insist on starting a thread EVERY TIME they see/hear one of the above the place will be destroyed. Show some restraint people! If you don't find out what THAT one was about there will be another along in a minute If it's not on your road, trust me it will be on SOME road It won't be that interesting

You are no realist TB, just OTT When you ask You would have us believe that the world 10 years ago was a nirvana. Jaysus how would you react if some of the events of the 60s, 70s, and 80s had happened. Suss laws, riots on the streets In many many ways things are much much better today. Precisely because of the freedoms we now have There are some things which are worse and which need addressing You say and who could argue with that. But we don't have that do we? If you are born into the wrong family your chances of achieving anything plummet dramatically. Someone has to do do 3 cleaning jobs to pay the rent and that could be you if you are unlucky. And that's before you reach your teenage years. It must be very tempting to a badly brought up kid to look at the positives hanging with a bad lot if he sees so much failure around him That doesn't mean I'm giving anyone a free pass to commit crime - I'm just saying phrases like "fighting FEAR and AGGRESSION" is just so much posturing. It don't work - if you can show me anywhere in the world or time where it did or does work I am open for conversion