SeanMacGabhann

It's not that I have a problem with people flying the English flag in England per se Flags generally are anathema to me. Driving around Ireland I often see flags from that specific county fluttering outside houses. It's a bit "you ain't from around here, we are - be careful sonny. And even then?." Football tournaments it all goes a bit mental and ubiquitous so it seems odd but in a different way But as you know well I have lived in various rural and suburbam parts of England so you don't need to worry about me should England do well. They won't. And it's when they don't do well I'm reminded about the weirdness that goes with wrapping oneself in a flag. And once again I'll have to be careful in the vicinity of upset football fans who have confused 11 over played men with some form of national identity and self-worth But to take the English flag specifically - do you think that the proportion of people who voted BNP this week are more or less likely to have an english flag (or several) prominently displayed in their window and what does that say?

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere Tony, I just don't know what it is Are you suggesting I have a problem with the English or England? Because I don't

@ WMTD Flags generally I find unsettling - the Irish one for reasons stated Union Jacks less threatening than English but more patronising. English flag more threatening.

were they? or were they just geezers stating already known principles (don't kill people, don't steal stuff) that were already enshrined in law. And then a good few years later some mother geezers needed to impose some kind of order so cobbled together bits of books with OBVIOUS MADE UP STUFF LIKE COMING BACK FROM THE DEAD in order to carry out centuries of opression Probably wrong place for it and nor am I (this time) trying to start a religious debate. Just that as things they said, were Jesus or Mohammed in any way unusual?

The 176 and the 12 go to Oxford Circus as well although I would advise hopping off once over Waterloo/Westminster bridges and walking rest of the way as traffic snarls up too regularly thereafter

Jeremy - agree all the way. Keef - And you are sure your neighbour isn't TLS? ;-) I was being a bit naughty by including that line but I dunno. You don't need to look at an estate in Eltham. All of the bankers around me who have those flags displayed on their desks.. easily the most likely to come out with something racist. I'm in no position to judge your neighbour but when the IRA were "being busy" I wasn't too minded to fly a tricolor myself... Guilty by association. And once that nonsense all died down I questioned the point of a flag anyway

To be slightly fair to Tony, he did say I was a "tad" patronising when in fact I was going for the full-on, no-doubt-remaining, off-the-scale-on-the-patronisometer I have LONG since ceased to care what a number of people think, for the simple fact, as already stated, they have a position and create an argument to fit that positition rather than any sense of judging the facts as they are, identifying a solution and working towards it Speaking of ill-judged opinions: Daizie - care to point out when exactly this country was "great"? Was it when it had an empire? a slave trade? a lack of voting for women? when the Irish were confined to slums in the Minories? Or are those inconvenient facts? Which country is great in comparison now?

Nor am I satisfied with any kind of argument which says "Labour ignored core voters needs for years so we can't be surprised if they vote BNP" WTF??? the argument ""Labour ignored core voters needs for years so we can't be surprised if they vote Tory/libdem/independant/green " I can get When did core labour voters decide that if the current government wasn't providing social houseing/adequate healthcare that the way forward was a bunch of fascists? There is no excuse - NONE - for anyone voting for BNP. You can cry, you can set yourself on fire, you can vote Tory you can pretty much do whatever you need to do - but vote BNP? Labour can't be blamed for that.. that's on the individual voter (and yes I am treating houses with English flags with more suspicion today)

where will you be travelling to fi85? I used to buy a monthly card when I moved here 8 years ago until I found a combination of buses and walking was a) faster (oftentime anyway) b) cheaper c) healthier d) less hassle I have worked in Tower Bridge, Blackfriars and Moorgate in that time and in all cases have stuck with the bus to Elephant & Castle (or Tower Bridge Rd in the first case) and walk the rest of the way

I found out (slightly too late at the time) that the kat and onion had never been to TN - that's gotta be sorted

(against my better judgement) Tony - the arguments I made were against the death penalty AND against "normal" people adopting a similar mindset to the very people they despise. Where do you get the rest of your arguments from? Where in anything I wrote can you deduce I'm "not that bothered" by criminal behaviour? THAT is the reason I don't want to engage with you. You create an argument to fit your position rather than listening to what is being said I'm not so far away from you age-wise that you can give it the "wait until you are my age and see what I have seen" crap either. If I believe the notion that 15 years ago you were a some variant of a happy socialist (and I don't believe that for a second) then that still doesn't mean I am going to turn into the Clint Eastwood character you aspire to on here I gave 2 examples of the types of society that have less of a problem with violent behaviour. Obviously I favour the former over the latter. Very few people are born bad. The trick here is to create the sort of society which reduces the likelehood of people going off the path in the first place. It is possible. Stop living in the past and look around you. Look a bit further than this country The society WE have created here (essentially widening the gap between rich and poor, covetous, angry, jealous, suspicious, always with a smattering of penis-envy because we aren't the US) is a perfect breeding ground for the very behaviour we throw our hands up in horror over . Building more prisons and sentencing for longer is no solution. It MIGHT prevent the people you lock up but the generations after them know how hard they have to become in an ever more brutal world. thanks to Blair the phrase "tough on mah jong, tough on the causes of mah jong" or whatver it was is now meaningless but don't ever confuse me with someone who is not that bothered

prediction: Canada's previously enviable record on crime will start to look ever-more-like the US

And of all the people I'm determined NOT to engage with*.... * because it hurts my head

Using phrases like "inconsequential piece of filth with no soul or feelings" suggests something of the morally superior does it not. What if it was your boy who went off the rails and killed someone? Happy to do the deed then? Humanity has always been capable of the most appalling acts, but very few of them are perpetrated by "inconsequential piece of filth with no soul or feelings". Broken people. People with a story. Dangerous people. People who need to be dealt with and kept out of trouble. But everyone has a reason for being where they are. It doesn't make anything they did ok, but using phrases like "inconsequential piece of filth with no soul or feelings" is pretty much what the Really Scary People (from serial killers to yer Hitlers) do to justify their actions. I'm less comfortable using the same logic as them than you are, clearly Nah, just became depressed by the tone of too many posters on here. Little I have read on here has done much to change that and I know I'll regret engaging with them.

I have no idea whether Atila is a lunatic or not. But he does like a bit of the old ultraViolence Got banned in his original incarnation for inviting someone out to a car park over a difference of opinion if I recall For some people violence = a solution. I can't see a SINGLE example of this being the case anywhere in the world? the US states which still have the death penalty, havens of peace in an otherwise world-gone-mad? Hmm not really If you want to have LESS murder, violent crime etc you can either take the essentialy liberal model of Scandanavian countries (cue cries of nany state, PC gone mad if similar policies ar even mooted etc) Or you can go for totalitarian, fear based models such as Iraq, Saudi etc Essentially those are your two choices (only if you want LESS violent crime remember) Yes individuals make their own choices but the systems in place to support any given society dictate how many people make how many and which choices. If you employ a dog-eat-dog capitalism then some of those dogs will come looking to eat you. It's inbuilt into the system. You hold no moral superiority by condemning the rabid ones to death Given that, I put "normal/law-abidin'" people who would enjoy pulling the switch themselves in the same category (albeit down a few levels) as the very people they would put to death. A few unfortunate life-events and an already angry, vengeful person will be the one who is mugging me in an alleyway.

Whose absence are you noting MM?

* a quiet click * * a dull thud *

how very open-minded of you James

splendid answer Torben, cheers

tum te tum lots of genero-union-bashing-they-get-paid-enough but back to my question Not striking for money but the specific safety issue on that lines trains. Would peolpe not complain if someone was badly injured or killed as a result? Why were they fitted on all the other lines and not this one?

Panic ye not Previous thread suggests just a lick of paint

I believe I fall into the daft job but pro train-driver part of the venn diagram - anyone else with me?

Hmm - anyone who starts a thread for business of the year and then states they can't think of anywhere that's much good isn't THAT keen on genuine answers I would guess

exactly KK and given the reason for the strike (Victoria line is the only line to not have doors which can't be opened at 20mph) what is people's stance. No fatalaties or serious injuries in the few dozen incidents related over the last few years but if one were to happen wouldn't the public decry the lack of action which led to a fatality?

I think we can file that under another of thebeard's insults. And anyone who calls me MATE is automatically on shaky ground What is with the big conspiracy theories thebeard? And why insult several people on here who just happen to work for this or other councils? And lastly you didn't answer my question. Car parking isn't an issue that dropped out of the sky - it's the very real manifestatin of more HUMANS (as you call them) driving and taking up space on the roads every single day. That many cars need to be managed.