I thought you wanted rid of gov't full stop Lady D ;-P Of course what's going on here is almost certainly *not* that the parents are abusive alcoholics (that's quite an assumption to make just because they're bullies), just that they're arseholes. As far as i know we have social services in place for the safety net, not to teach good manners. But there is a point to be made about getting the kids to be more positive. Quids can't have it both ways, on the one hand say they lack imagination and on the other say the parents don't give a sh!t. If they've never set foot in a musem and aren't giving them any guidance except the bad sort by example, then you do need resources in to outreach programmes and so forth. I remeber an article with a youth worker up in Tottenham who took kids to see the Thames, a mere bus ride away, but they were the first in THREE GENERATIONS!!!! to have gone more than a mile from their estate and certainly the first to see the city centre or the river. A single bloke can make a difference. But yes, bottom line these kids need to be discouraged from bullying and intimidating young kids by standing up to them and getting some patrols to ensure sensitive areas are safe, but pushing the problem elsewhere doesn't solve anything, so getting someone to be nice to them might help in the long run. And lastly young teens are sitting in that weird bit of life where your boundaries are expanding so your powerlessness seems to increase proportionately. It's frustrating and you experiment with drink, drugs, low level criminalty. Most do and end up perfectly functional members of society. I went through some brief periods of petty vandalism/theft etc and look at me *hic*, so really surly youths is just another facet of life (as any parent knows) .