"They were, as far as I can see, pointing out that Hamas was as much culpable in this as Israel" Which is false, theyre not. There needs to be movement towards giving palestinians dignity and freedom. Since Oslo things have got streadily worse for the Palestinians, not better, since 2001 dramatically so, the seige of Gaza has now gone on for 7 years whilst more settlements go up, more villages buldozed, more water taken. I sincerely believe Israel has settled for managed conflict as the price it pays for the long term goal of a greater israel. Hence my point about school massacres in the US the price people are willing to pay for gun ownership. So what would you do in that situation, genuine question, go 'fair enough, wouldn't want to upset them or they'll rape my sister and it'll be my fault as everyone keeps pointing out, best accept life in an open prison and indefinite statelessness". I can only see a single state being the answer, but Israel won't go for it because it'll either have to accept that likud won't be winning any more elections (a la end of apartheid in S Africa) or it'll have to drop the pretence that its a democracy.