ab29

As I said: Court Lane comparing to Lordship Lane was (and is) an extremely quiet road. And what is it that you are trying to prove anyway? That it is ok to treat people living on the busy roads like LL with even more fumes? Why, are they some sort of second class citizens that can be done away with?

"So having seen the video will you withdraw your previous comment that pushing traffic from 'quiet roads' was untrue? Those roads were clearly very busy for a very long time." - I will not. Court Lane comparing to Lordship Lane was (and is) an extremely quiet road. And what is it that you are trying to prove anyway? That it is ok to treat people living on the busy roads like LL with even more fumes? Why, are they some sort of second class citizens that can be done away with? Chris said "One thing that has amazed me is the extent to which people have lost confidence in the council" - oh yes. There has to be a change after the next local elections.

Oh, so it is ok to make the already busy and polluted roads even more so? Shouldn't the 'clean air for all' start from making it better for those already very badly affected e.g. people living on South Circular? And looking at the bigger picture - how is pushing the traffic from one road to another better for the overall air pollution and climate change, which the pro-LTN groups like to refer to?

Why not? jazzer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BBQ's, fires and log burning stoves are filthy and > quite possibly carcinogenic but you can't stop > people using them

"I'd suggest not trying to create the, them and us, rich against poor, weak against strong scenario" - Southwark council has already done that. If having a BBQ is more important than working towards clean air(ish) for ALL (including those living on main roads) than that's your answer.

Do you realise that people using the "quiet roads" do it for 5 - 10 minutes every day while people living on the roads taking the extra traffic have to put up with it 24/7?

"because with current traffic growth on sideroads continuing at its current rate, ALL roads will be chock a block in a few years time" - so it is ok for people living on the main roads to die of lung cancer ten years earlier because of the worsen air pollution due to the increased traffic (=LTNS)? Really?

"UK car ownership has doubled over those 30 years from 20m to 40m" - so? How does this justify road closures and pushing traffic from quiet roads to those already busy and polluted? Overall air pollution stays the same or is even worst - idling traffic - so how does his help at all? Shouldn't the busiest and dirtiest roads be treated as priority? There has to be a bigger change: stop producing cars; stop exporting cars; make it illegal to have more than one car per household (with exceptions); make people pay for driving. Or do the LTN supporters want to make it better only for themselves?

Hope you had the 'Clean air for all' poster with you :)

Yeah. They can visit and then go back where they belong - to a dirty, polluted road where they can continue to aspire. Or expire more likely. legalalien Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It?s OK mfcjoe as long as Dulwich Square exists as > a nice destination for those poor folk to visit > and aspire to. I?m told that?s how nice places > work. > > mfcjoe Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Three generous sized parks within 5-10 min walk > > from "Dulwich square", why should there be more > > open space for DV where most of the the wealthy > > residents will more than likely have a large > > garden, whilst the poorer parts of Southwark > are > > having their small pieces of grass and > playgrounds > > turned into housing. > > WALOB

Thanks for sharing Bicknell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > duwlich allinace fighting fund now at 13,7oo. > heres the link > https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-end-road-closures- > in-dulwich

Is there a councils board of sort where we could make a complaint against Southwark council for what they've done?

And Rockets yes, they've dug out a hole and put temporary lights in place. The traffic goes all the way to Forest Hill. Just when I thought this cannot get any worst.

@3xR: name calling means the use of offensive names - have not used any when referring to you and your posts.

As a cyclist you are at the road like EDG for 5 - 10 minutes; others have to live with it 24/7. I would love to see a reversal of this experiment - close LL, EDG, Croxted Rd etc an redirect the traffic via Calton, Court Lane and so on - and see how many LTN supporters would be left after that.

I cannot imagine that anyone who is capable of empathising can support a scheme like so-called LTN.

I was walking this morning form Horniman towards Dulwich Library and there was a solid, hardly moving traffic starting around Wood Vale. 10am on Saturday, not a weekday, not rush hours. This stretch of LL is now a complete bottleneck most of the day. Shifting traffic from richer roads to the poorer ones (usually more densely populated and more polluted) by closing roads and being very precious about it does not improve air quality. How about banning households from owning more than one car and banning ownership of SUV in London to start with - this would have much more effect and quicker.

3xRah: "It?s great that ?One Dulwich? want less pollution and more active travel - everyone does. What do they propose to achieve this? " Countless number of times people like Rockets, Legal and others have come up with many ideas but you prefer to ignore it and repeat the same things over and over again, like a mantra. So far you have done the cause no service, except reinforcing a stereotype of the know-it-all, arrogant cyclist. You have never showed any interest in those here who voice their concerns and who are badly affected by the road closures. Also - there is a new thread called 'Air pollution in East Dulwich - what can we do?'- many ideas there.

Found an article but cannot see a petition: https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/battle-to-save-peckham-green-space-with-new-council-homes-planned/

Make public transport cheap and reliable. Produce fewer cars / stop producing cars. Make people pay for using the roads. Introduce tax if a household owns more than one car - or even make it illegal (with some exceptions). Ban wood burners. And start from improving air quality for people living on the most polluted roads such as South Circular.

I am against the road closures and have been from the start. I don't own a car, use public transport and walk when I can. My situation has been made much worst after the so-called LTNs were put in place: I'm now presented with idling traffic most of the day, buses are slower and many of my walking routes are affected by displaced traffic. Several houses near me are split into flats - number of people living in those flats probably equals the entire population of Calton Avenue; the latter, already comfortable, can now enjoy even more peace and quiet while the former, so much less comfortable, have to put up with worsened living conditions - why would anyone support such a scheme? The traffic is simply pushed to other roads and so the overall air pollution is the same or even worst.

For me the problem with buses started when TfL introduced the electronic boards announcing when the next bus is due. Good idea in principle but it should be set to say something like ?next bus due in 5 min? or so instead of trying to tell the exact bus arrival, up to a minute. In a city of 8 million people (+), where things change all the time, it is an absurd to try to predict bus the next bus arrival so precise. The infuriating ?regulating the service? thingy followed, where buses stop for a few minutes at the bus stops so they fit this ?up to a minute? schedule ? the frustration and anger this causes is beyond words. Utterly impractical and unnecessary. Then the trend to make everything cyclists friendly started and many roads were halved to accommodate cycling lanes, which took space away from buses; now the so-called LTNs, pushing the traffic to the roads like Lordship Lane and making bus journeys even longer. And then TfL announces that they have to cut down bus frequency and get rid of some bus routes because people don?t use them! You make something worst and then claim it is not being used so you have to shut it down. Pure Monty Python.

Nigello, it depends on a work you do and other circumstances. If you a nurse coming home after 12 hours shift, which usually means being on your feet a lot , the last thing you want is walking through the 'leafy quietness of Melbourne Grove'. Not to mention that this 'leafy quietness' might be nowhere near your route home.

Bicknell, some people just don't care about anything but themselves - sad but true.

I am up for the fight. I sincerely hope the labour will be trashed in the next local elections - they are asking for it. It will be down to people like councillors Leeming and Newens. KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > They don?t care whether the consultation > ?conclusions? are swallowed or not, anyone not > convinced and wishing to take action will have a > formidable project ahead of them to > disprove/balance the findings and they believe > no-one?s up for that.