ab29

Heartblock, I remember you suggesting banning BBQs as air pollutant and someone replying that this country is not a dictatorship yet. Most people are not ready to sacrifice anything - they want to live on quiet roads, drive, have BBQs, order from amazon etc. They also don't have a problem with dumping dirt, pollution and noise on their neighbours' roads - see LTN aka HTN. heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Aah but I haven?t called anyone or anything a > dictatorship or one party state..I think you might > find that expression was used by someone else. > > I wouldn?t use that term, just saying what a silly > expression it is, I completely agree with you > DuncanW, so either I made a poor job of making my > point or you didn?t understand my response to a > previous post, criticising malumbu?s use of that > term. Either way, yes I agree with you.

The same on the pavements from Dulwich Library all the way to LL / Wood Vale - this is a stretch of the road that it's always forgotten. Some clearing took place yesterday but only on side of the road for some reason.

How about a six storey block on Court Lane instead? Or several? redpost Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ab29 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > But of course - squeeze in more people in > already > > busy area, take away whatever little green > space > > people have and add more noise (more people, > more > > cars etc) - just because you can! > > > > How about a six storey block on Court Lane > > instead? Or several? > > Yes, let's just keep people in temporary > accomodation instead

But of course - squeeze in more people in already busy area, take away whatever little green space people have and add more noise (more people, more cars etc) - just because you can! How about a six storey block on Court Lane instead? Or several?

Yesterday was awful: a traffic was building up all the way to Wood Vale and beyond and was hardly moving at times while before the LTN it would flow freely. This is how the weekends look like now.

Today is the last day to object to the Dulwich Streetspace traffic orders. There is no option to object to the scheme as a whole so a separate email needs to be sent for each traffic order. The orders (which can be found at www.southwark.gov.uk/trafficorders) are: Dulwich Streetspace: Calton Avenue area (TMO2122-015_DS Calton Avenue area) Dulwich Streetspace: Champion Hill (TMO2122-016_DS Champion Hill) Dulwich Streetspace: East Dulwich area (TMO2122-017_DS East Dulwich area) Dulwich Streetspace: Melbourne Grove south (TMO2122-018_DS Melbourne Grove south) Dulwich Streetspace: Timed bus, cycle and taxi only routes (TMO2122-019_DS bus cycle taxi routes) Please note that no. 3 covers Derwent Grove, Elsie Road, Grove Vale and Tintagel Crescent, and no. 5 covers Burbage Road, Dulwich Village, Townley Road and Turney Road. More at [www.onedulwich.uk]

"most people have taken a position and are sticking to it steadfastly, interpreting and choosing evidence that supports this." I have not 'taken position' - LTN and its consequences have been forced on me. As to evidence, I can see it form my windows. This has never been a discussion between two equal sides - how could it be? You have people who are not impacted in any way or benefit from the road closures and those who now have more pollution, dirt and noise on their doorstep.

Reminder to OBJECT to the Dulwich Streetspace traffic orders - the deadline is 11th of November. There is no option to object to the scheme as a whole - a separate email needs to be sent for each traffic order. The orders (which can be found at www.southwark.gov.uk/trafficorders) are: Dulwich Streetspace: Calton Avenue area (TMO2122-015_DS Calton Avenue area) Dulwich Streetspace: Champion Hill (TMO2122-016_DS Champion Hill) Dulwich Streetspace: East Dulwich area (TMO2122-017_DS East Dulwich area) Dulwich Streetspace: Melbourne Grove south (TMO2122-018_DS Melbourne Grove south) Dulwich Streetspace: Timed bus, cycle and taxi only routes (TMO2122-019_DS bus cycle taxi routes) Please note that no. 3 covers Derwent Grove, Elsie Road, Grove Vale and Tintagel Crescent, and no. 5 covers Burbage Road, Dulwich Village, Townley Road and Turney Road. - Send an email to [email protected], with the headline ?Dulwich Streetspace Statutory Consultation? - Number your objections if there is more than one - Give your name and address at the end More at https://www.onedulwich.uk/news/last-chance-to-object

This is true. South Circular has been double hit - first by LTN and now by ULEZ.

"if as a community we are serious about climate change, are coming down the track to change our relationship with the motorcar" - and once again, what about people living on the boundary roads which are now taking displaced traffic, which means having more air pollution and more noise on your doorstep? LTN might have moved the traffic away from your road, but it is affecting other roads very badly. Only because you do not see something anymore, it does not mean it simply stopped existing - you have only pushed the problem away from your home. You can parade up and down the closed roads all you want, imagining you are saving the world - it has nothing to do with reality.

If residents/constituents don't benefit from what Southwark council is doing who does?

After LTN is removed;)

This is true re: nr 40. They stopped it from going to London Bridge, which is handy for Guy's hospital and where you can change for tube, trains and other buses. There was a petition, we asked the council & councilors to get involved, wrote to TfL but got no help or response. It seems as surreal as LTNs - perhaps the same kind of genius is behind both. heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks redpost - such a perfect example of > > It allows the new puritans to howl at Mums taking > kids to school in some old rubbish car, or a > cleaner driving to multiple house-holds to be > accused of being a car-owning, petrol head, > carbon-lover while actually not tackling the real > issues of lack of investment and inequality. > > The 42 is the most useless bus ever -rubbish route > - the 40 was always full all along it's whole > journey, but Southwark made less fuss about it > being cut than the fuss they have made over > parklets.

heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Meanwhile - ab29 just wants the roads re-opened > and doesn't drive. What is the main reason you > want roads re-opened ab29? Since the LTN were introduced, my stretch of LL has seen big increase in traffic. We used to have am and pm rush hours and freely flowing traffic through the the rest of the day. Now more often than not it is idling, hardly moving line of cars. Lots of honking as people get angry and frustrated. Talked to neighbours and many, many people in the area and all agree this started after the closures went in. Overall, the scheme brought zero benefits and actually made things worst as the idling cars are polluting the air even more and many car journeys take much longer - which also means more pollution. Buses are stuck in this gridlock and people have no choice but walk there and wait at bus stops.

Or perhaps you could do us a favour goldilocks and move your righteous indignation here: /forum/read.php?5,2207080,page=1 Some of you, the 'holier-than-thou' folk already tried it once.

And? goldilocks Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thats just whataboutery. > > Is it wrong that Rosamund Kissi-Debrah gets abused > on Twitter - yes? Is it wrong for Dulwich > Alliance to have produced an 'all streets matter' > poster? Also yes! > > Is it unquestionably unacceptable not to have > intervened to have removed the posters? That'll > be another 'yes'.

I want the roads to be reopened. I don't drive.

We should re-brand "pro LTN lobby" to "pro-social injustice lobby". Ok, I'm not really adding to a sensible discussion here but one is able to take only so much.

'Imagine how bad it would be without LTNs' - for who? Certainly not for people living on the boundary roads as we are getting all you traffic now. LTN is one of the most socially unjust scheme ever invented.

As Dougie said here once: "The scheme is a failure, completely unfair and should be replaced with something else entirely (with proper consultation with all residents). (...) I don?t believe that the ideology of cyclists and the environmentally conscious should somehow trump the rights to clean air of a selection of unfortunate residents. If you cannot give clean air and quiet streets to everyone, then your scheme needs work. If you are giving wealthy residents clean air and quiet streets at the expense of a selection of (arguably less wealthy) residents, then your scheme is not fit for purpose. There is simply no acceptable excuse for forcing these measures on people. Until a fair solution can be found, air pollution (as horrific as it may be) should be shared equally by all residents as it is all of our burden to bear (not just an unfortunate selection)."

Metallic - spot on.

From South London Press: Pensioners against Dulwich LTN (September 2021): https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/fears-of-car-fines-and-of-isolation-for-dulwich-pensioners/ About LTN in Lewisham - ambulance service reporting delay caused by LTN (from March 2021) https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/ambulance-service-reports-ltn-traffic-blocks-delayed-a-life-threatening-call/

Southwark News on the recent anti LTN demo. Looking forward to the future ones! https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/a-thousand-voices-cry-out-against-dulwich-ltns/?fbclid=IwAR01hHisVnseziS11nGsWh7AHbNcZIvgc7XQMOmz3OHbDsFinPvrHkARX8k

DV & Court Lane are permanently closed - it used to take traffic away from LL. Well, you have data and I have eyes and experience in living on a busy road.

People are using these safe routes/closed roads for 15-30 minutes every day - to take kids to and from school. Those living on the boundary roads have to put up with the negative impact of the LTNs every day. My neighbours have three kids, walk and cycle, no car. The dad said recently that it is all well and good that they can use the closed roads but then they have to go back home and face idling traffic, increased air pollution and noise. It is asking people to sacrifice too much. Also, people, including children walk these streets and wait for buses there. It is not all about cycling. I already mentioned I'm really worried about the increase in traffic during the weekends - it is much worse now so we don't even have these two quieter days anymore, except half terms and holidays. If the roads are closed for people to get kids to schools, why they have to be closed on Saturday and Sunday as well?