ab29

After LTN is removed;)

This is true re: nr 40. They stopped it from going to London Bridge, which is handy for Guy's hospital and where you can change for tube, trains and other buses. There was a petition, we asked the council & councilors to get involved, wrote to TfL but got no help or response. It seems as surreal as LTNs - perhaps the same kind of genius is behind both. heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks redpost - such a perfect example of > > It allows the new puritans to howl at Mums taking > kids to school in some old rubbish car, or a > cleaner driving to multiple house-holds to be > accused of being a car-owning, petrol head, > carbon-lover while actually not tackling the real > issues of lack of investment and inequality. > > The 42 is the most useless bus ever -rubbish route > - the 40 was always full all along it's whole > journey, but Southwark made less fuss about it > being cut than the fuss they have made over > parklets.

heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Meanwhile - ab29 just wants the roads re-opened > and doesn't drive. What is the main reason you > want roads re-opened ab29? Since the LTN were introduced, my stretch of LL has seen big increase in traffic. We used to have am and pm rush hours and freely flowing traffic through the the rest of the day. Now more often than not it is idling, hardly moving line of cars. Lots of honking as people get angry and frustrated. Talked to neighbours and many, many people in the area and all agree this started after the closures went in. Overall, the scheme brought zero benefits and actually made things worst as the idling cars are polluting the air even more and many car journeys take much longer - which also means more pollution. Buses are stuck in this gridlock and people have no choice but walk there and wait at bus stops.

Or perhaps you could do us a favour goldilocks and move your righteous indignation here: /forum/read.php?5,2207080,page=1 Some of you, the 'holier-than-thou' folk already tried it once.

And? goldilocks Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thats just whataboutery. > > Is it wrong that Rosamund Kissi-Debrah gets abused > on Twitter - yes? Is it wrong for Dulwich > Alliance to have produced an 'all streets matter' > poster? Also yes! > > Is it unquestionably unacceptable not to have > intervened to have removed the posters? That'll > be another 'yes'.

I want the roads to be reopened. I don't drive.

We should re-brand "pro LTN lobby" to "pro-social injustice lobby". Ok, I'm not really adding to a sensible discussion here but one is able to take only so much.

'Imagine how bad it would be without LTNs' - for who? Certainly not for people living on the boundary roads as we are getting all you traffic now. LTN is one of the most socially unjust scheme ever invented.

As Dougie said here once: "The scheme is a failure, completely unfair and should be replaced with something else entirely (with proper consultation with all residents). (...) I don?t believe that the ideology of cyclists and the environmentally conscious should somehow trump the rights to clean air of a selection of unfortunate residents. If you cannot give clean air and quiet streets to everyone, then your scheme needs work. If you are giving wealthy residents clean air and quiet streets at the expense of a selection of (arguably less wealthy) residents, then your scheme is not fit for purpose. There is simply no acceptable excuse for forcing these measures on people. Until a fair solution can be found, air pollution (as horrific as it may be) should be shared equally by all residents as it is all of our burden to bear (not just an unfortunate selection)."

Metallic - spot on.

From South London Press: Pensioners against Dulwich LTN (September 2021): https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/fears-of-car-fines-and-of-isolation-for-dulwich-pensioners/ About LTN in Lewisham - ambulance service reporting delay caused by LTN (from March 2021) https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/ambulance-service-reports-ltn-traffic-blocks-delayed-a-life-threatening-call/

Southwark News on the recent anti LTN demo. Looking forward to the future ones! https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/a-thousand-voices-cry-out-against-dulwich-ltns/?fbclid=IwAR01hHisVnseziS11nGsWh7AHbNcZIvgc7XQMOmz3OHbDsFinPvrHkARX8k

DV & Court Lane are permanently closed - it used to take traffic away from LL. Well, you have data and I have eyes and experience in living on a busy road.

People are using these safe routes/closed roads for 15-30 minutes every day - to take kids to and from school. Those living on the boundary roads have to put up with the negative impact of the LTNs every day. My neighbours have three kids, walk and cycle, no car. The dad said recently that it is all well and good that they can use the closed roads but then they have to go back home and face idling traffic, increased air pollution and noise. It is asking people to sacrifice too much. Also, people, including children walk these streets and wait for buses there. It is not all about cycling. I already mentioned I'm really worried about the increase in traffic during the weekends - it is much worse now so we don't even have these two quieter days anymore, except half terms and holidays. If the roads are closed for people to get kids to schools, why they have to be closed on Saturday and Sunday as well?

And I wonder if cyclists who have vandalised 'No cycling' sign in Horniman Gardens will be cleaning it any time soon.

The trouble is, we have already given it a chance - the displaced traffic has not disappeared, it has been pushed onto the existing, already busy and densely populated roads. I look through the window and I don's see any sign of improvement (if there has been, this thread would've died of natural causes long ago). I'm especially despairing about the weekend traffic - weekends used to be quieter, especially Sundays so we had a bit of a respite but now the traffic seems to be as bad as during the week. I don't think it is fair to ask people to just wait at the expense of their health and well-being. How long the wait? What will be a measure of success? What if in 10 years time the council will admit this was a complete failure? Road tax, help to switch to electric cars (not ideal but better still), improved public transport would be much more effective - and fair. PS. I'm below 50, I don't drive and never owned a car. I walk and use public transport. Many of my friends and people I know could not attend the protest on Saturday and so the group of people unhappy about LTNs is certainly more varied.

Last time I checked this was a democratic country, where people still have a right to protest peacfully. But don't worry Otto - soon you might be able to complain about any protest you don't like and perhaps even put people to jail, courtesy of Priti Patel policing bill. How dare these people from Lordship Lane, Croxted, EDG to claim they don't want more traffic, air pollution and noise on their roads!

Good idea - ban them from driving on LL too. It should help to ease the traffic on LL beyond the Dulwich Library, which has been truly horrendous ever since thr LTNs were introduced.

I was there too :) I was rather shocked to find out that London Cycling Campaign is a charity - a charity! "The ends justify the means" certainly should be their motto.

@eastdulwichhenry: "(...) supposed increase in traffic on LL or EDG, remember that there is little evidence for that " - I have eyes and I've been in my current place long enough to be able to compare the before LTNs and after. It is a big difference to have a couple of hours am and pm of idling traffic in front of your place and to have to put up with it all day long, including weekends & to walk these roads and to wait at the bus stops there. It is utterly wrong and unjust to sacrifice peoples' health and wellbeing in the name of a vanity project like LTN with zero evidence it actually helps to reduce traffic or help to improve air quality.

Building on green spaces should definitely not be allowed, I agree. I live nearby Grove Tavern hence the mention of traffic and noise. I would like to see an end to profiteering form renting - it doesn't seem right for one person to own 50 properties while others are unable to buy anything. Also, money laundering by investing in homes across UK, especially in London by criminals should not be happening. Wishful thinking I guess.

It is an awful location with traffic coming from all directions, high air pollution and noise level, all exacerbated by the LTNs. In Southwark council's books this means a perfect place for a social housing.

Sadly, this 'I don't care about anyone but self' attitude got us where we are now.

Reminder about the anti-LTN demo this Saturday at 12pm near the illegally closed junction in Dulwich Village.

"They want restrictions *WITH PERMITS* for themselves." - eh?? I live on Lordship Lane, a very noisy and very polluted road. I have to put up with increased traffic, air pollution and noise because people on Calton Ave are too posh to put up with five vehicles passing down their precious road, having several cars and amazon deliveries daily! Wake up FFS! DulwichCentral Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > alice Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > DC One fact is indisputable. The Dulwich > Village > > LTNs have made life even better for those in > the > > wealthiest, greenest part of Southwark. > > One Dulwich; the people opposing the LTNs who are > on the residents associations of the wealthiest > streets in Dulwich > do not think the LTNs have made their lives even > better - they are totally affronted that they are > inconvenienced by the LTNs. > > That is why they have conjured up a campaign to > get other people to oppose the LTNs. They want > restrictions *WITH PERMITS* for themselves. They > even submitted a proposal for this to the council > whilst telling people to select remove all > measures. The cheek of it is astounding.