ab29

Well said Artemis and very politely too; agree 100%. Rockets, how about becoming our councillor ;)

"traffic doesn't evaporate it moves to another street" - exactly that; repeated about a million times here and still does not sink in with some. I would start from restricting car ownership to one per household (with some valid exceptions)- I'm pretty sure it would make a difference right away.

Agree. No one ever asked me if I want my money wasted on introducing this dubious experiment to start with. alice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The relative clean up costs are irrelevant. > Dulwich LTNs are unfair, unjust and will be > removed.

It really infuriates me - this omnipresent dictate of 'data'! People who have no idea about others experience feel entitled to reprimand them from the depths of their armchairs - because of 'data'! How about we start listen to people and their experience for a change.

I am not wrong - please speak for yourself. I'm close to Grove Tavern; the traffc has been much worst since the introduction of the so-called LTNs, with exception of half-terms and other holidays. As I said, I am happy to meet and/or organise a meeting with people in the area to discuss / get opinions.

@NorthernMonkey: but I live on Lordship Lane - I have been in my current place for about seven years. I have all the data I need - before the LTNs and after (windows in my flat through which I can see and hear the traffic; and my own eyes & ears(obviously)). Do you live on Lordship Lane, Croxted Road, East Dulwich Grove, Underhill Road, Melford Road? As I said before, I am happy to meet in person; happy to organise a meeting with people in the area (in case you thought I am biased), if you really want to know what the residents of Lordship Lane really think about the road closures.

NorthernMonkey: as I said before - you clearly live in a parallel universe; - you are welcome to come to my place to see what coping with the road closures introduced by the Southwark Council really means. Lol. Many of my friends cycle and I cycle too (although not in London). I have never owned a car - I do not even have a driving licence. Although, with what the Southwark Council has done (=LTN), I am very close to say " to hell with it all" and start driving - and believe me, many other people are too. And this question still stands: what is a plan for the "meantime', while we await these "everywhere walking & cycling spaces"? Gassing people that happen to live on LL, Croxted, EDG etc to death with extra car fumes? Ghandi said that "The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members.? - well, this certainly is not the Southwark council policy.

And what is a plan for the "meantime', while we await these "everywhere walking spaces"?(I do not mention cyclists as I truly despise them because of the LTNS) - gassing people that happen to live on LL, Croxted, EDG etc to death with extra car fumes?

NorthernMonkey. WHERE exactly do you want these 'safe routes for walking...' to be created? This is zone 3 in central London and space is rather limited. I work at GSTT and I used to walk to the hospital - 2 hrs one way roughly so 4 hrs walking per day - no roads had to be closed for me to do so. I worked from home today (7-3 and I spent most of the day in my bathroom because of the noise (meetings) - the traffic has been much, much worst ever since the so-called "LTNs" were introduced; although; it's ben a little bit better recently because of the summer holiday (Thursday and weekends are hell though). You clearly live in a parallel universe - you are welcome to come to my place to see what coping with the road closures really means.

Have been a swing voter all my life; voted Labour in the past but will never do so again after this failed LTN experiment. Most of my neighbours contacted the local councillors about the road closures - Andy Simmons and Catherine Rose - and also the MP Helen Hayes. Majority have received no reply from any of them. If the consultation doesn't change anything, I sincerely hope the councillors responsible for introducing LTNs will be voted out in May. High time to change the one-party state situation in the council.

What does the whether has do with it? People behaving like described above are hooligans, not fans.

Except these people are hooligans, not fans.

How about banning everyone living within LTNs from owning a car for a start? You get all the peace and quiet and in return you stop driving so people like me, living on LL, EDG, Croxted etc don't have to choke on the fumes from all the extra traffic pouring down our roads at the moment. LTN BooHoo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rockets Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > They are out again today...there is a group > > congregating outside Saucy with Charlie now. > It's > > almost as if they are concerned about > > something..... > > Global warming? Our climate emergency? Inactivity? > Obesity? Pollution? Our children?s future? The > fact that we have built our lives around the motor > vehicle and if we have any decency we will > acknowledge that we must seek alternatives? > > I know, none of the above. Let?s just carry on as > we were. Have a nice day.

There was a mention here about Clean Air Dulwich taking photos of peoples houses and posting them on twitter. There is one photo published on their facebook page too.

rahrahrah. I have called you "arrogant and selfish? (which implies lack of empathy) and ?know-it-all, arrogant cyclist" (in capital letters) and I stand by it - it is based on your comments about LTNs on this forum. It is not, however a 'name calling' as you claim (refer to any decent dictionary definition if in doubts). Rockets, Legal and a few others are not directly affected by the road closures and yet they have shown understanding towards those who are. I do not always agree with them but I value their opinion and would be willing to reconsider mine (however reluctantly). You however, have shown a complete inflexibility, repeating the same over and over again, regardless what the others response has been. All of this has nothing to do with a climate change - if you push traffic from one road to another how is that better for the overall air pollution? It seems as the cyclists want the roads closed just because it suits them. No one else matter. PS. I do not "moan" about people being disrespectful - I said it once (about the pro-LTN supporters)

@NorthernMonkey: "Not what I said at all - or even close. Comment was in relation to the visibility or otherwise of One Dulwich" - ok, please tell us what happens when you contact 'Clean Air Dulwich' (by email, twitter etc). What names are available? Who to contact if you re not the group member? How is the 'Clean Air Dulwich' visibility/transparency presents itself?

I agree with you heartblock. I work in a hospital. It's been a horrendous year (+). When the LTNs came around I had to blink twice, in disbelieve - is it really what people whish on their neighbours?

"Also - one group is supporting overall concepts - cleaner air / active travel, the other is trying to set council policy and was set up specifically to be against the road changes." - so you are happy with the fact that thousands of people (I am one of them) are being treated as second class citizens and have the extra traffic (= more pollution and noise) dumped on their roads? Never owned a car, walk where I can and I am being punished for that. Why? northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Without wishing this to get insanely tedious, they > do have a twitter feed but they don't use it for > any of their comments/ suggestions on policy etc - > they use their website for that. > > Also - one group is supporting overall concepts - > cleaner air / active travel, the other is trying > to set council policy and was set up specifically > to be against the road changes. > > No idea about the twitter message function - not > sure exactly how that works anyway, but pretty > sure that when I've received flyers from Clean Air > Dulwich that there has been an email address on > them. > > > Rockets Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Northern - you're wrong I am afraid. OneDulwich > > has a twitter feed but unlike Clean Air Dulwich > > it's not locked/restricted to only those that > they > > follow. Anyone can go on @realonedulwich and > > comment freely - whether they agree or disagree > > with what is being said. > > > > Unfortunately you can't contact CAD via their > > twitter page and they have this habit that if > you > > challenge them on something they block you - > they > > were doing this routinely until they made the > > comment feature only open to people they > follow. > > Also their main website only has a sign-up page > > and no contact info. > > > > Clean Air Dulwich are pretty elusive and much > less > > open to public questioning than OneDulwich - so > > maybe your super sleuth skills would be better > > deployed on trying to determine who is behind > > Clean Air Dulwich! ;-)

And what happens when you try to contact 'Clean Air Dulwich'? redpost Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sorry to interject with a few facts: > > One dulwich email goes to an anonymous gmail > address > > One dulwich website registered anonymously (see > whois lookup) > > No contact details, contact address, legal details > or any name on the website at all > > All blog posts are anonymous, no name presented > > > ab29 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > "They specifically don't publish anything > anywhere > > where it could be questioned publicly". Eh? > > > > Type in "One Dulwich" or "Dulwich Alliance" and > > you will see lots of info. > > > > What is is that you cannot find on their > > websites? > > > > > > northernmonkey Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > You talked about the right of reply - so the > > point > > > 'I'm trying to make' is that One Dulwich / > > Dulwich > > > Alliance either send emails to registered > > > supporters via email (so thats fine), or they > > > publish things on their website. They > > > specifically don't publish anything anywhere > > where > > > it could be questioned publicly. > > > > > > I'd imagine you could contact Clean Air > Dulwich > > > via social media accounts if you're a > follower?

"They specifically don't publish anything anywhere where it could be questioned publicly". Eh? Type in "One Dulwich" or "Dulwich Alliance" and you will see lots of info. What is is that you cannot find on their websites? northernmonkey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You talked about the right of reply - so the point > 'I'm trying to make' is that One Dulwich / Dulwich > Alliance either send emails to registered > supporters via email (so thats fine), or they > publish things on their website. They > specifically don't publish anything anywhere where > it could be questioned publicly. > > I'd imagine you could contact Clean Air Dulwich > via social media accounts if you're a follower?

@NorthernMonkey: "The point still stands, that they claim legitimacy yet are completely mute on who they are or how they engage / represent / canvas the views of the 2000 supporters they claim to represent" I support them. Send me a private message if in any doubts. Happy to meet in person. An ordinary citizen, ignored by the council, who has to bear the brunt of this ridiculous experiment (=LTN).

Rahrahrah. I did not 'resorted to name calling' - would've been kicked out or reprimanded (at least) by the Admin if I did. Name calling: "the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts" (Merriam-Webster dictionary). I did not use offensive names - if you think I did, when and what was it?. I said you are/seem arrogant and know-it-all - it is an impression I get from reading your comments on this forum in relation to the road closure subject. rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ab29 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Patronising tone of many of the pro-LTN > > supporters shown on this forum is infuriating > and > > frankly, disrespectful. > > Hi Ab29 - I am sorry you feel abandoned. But it's > a bit rich to talk about others being > disrespectful when you've repeatedly resorted to > name calling on this thread.

As I said here on many occasions, I'm negatively impacted by the LTNs. Have been in my current place for about 7 yrs (and about 15 in ED) so long enough to compare the 'before' and 'after'. I feel completely abandoned and ignored by the council and local councillors: Andy Simmons and Catherine Rose. Patronising tone of many of the pro-LTN supporters shown on this forum is infuriating and frankly, disrespectful. I'm grateful to One Dulwich and I contribute every month.

Rockets, I really admire your patience.

The Horniman market has been back long time; also, it's been moved to Sunday (back in pre-Covid time). There is a decent organic fruit & veg stall.