*Bob*

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well yeah, you have use of both hands pint, fag

It's essential to see the exile through for a few years so you can still claim it as a victory / the right thing to do at the time etc

Great stuff! I'm already looking forward to the rash of articles come 2019 - when journalists who've grown tired of trying to grow their own courgettes and pleading with their friends to visit them - return to 'rediscover' London.

Administrator Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You or he could have PM'd me directly rather than > a public notice but I guess it's more theatrical > this way Something not working? Immediately assume a conspiracy then make a public song and dance about it. "Danger - needy egos at work"

I just wear a t-shirt with 'no' printed on it. Saves a lot of time.

Not sure how FR deals with its historic data, but I believe webtrak does correct/smooth if there are obvious anomalies..

Fazer, flightradar is not 100% accurate, nor is the information 100% live. Some aircraft transmit delayed information (5 minutes in some cases). Even if the information is sent in realtime, added delay by the server of 20s can easily have a 'realtime' aircraft half a mile out or seemingly 'in the wrong place'. Not all aircraft are shown. In addition to all this the information FR gives you (altitude, heading, whatevs) is only as good as what's sent from the aircraft and this isn't automated - it's prone to human error. It would appear there are a few clumsy fingers on keypads up there. This all said, whilst 'specifically' it can't be relied upon as there will be obvious anomalies like the ones you mention, I think the 'overall picture' it provides is good.

WMWN - Heathrow webtrak is the thing. Goes back a year. Set the start time on a particular day for 4am and replay. You can set the replay speed up to 60x (so see 30 minutes worth of flights pass over in 30 seconds). Click on any aircraft to see altitude, aircraft type etc http://webtrak5.bksv.com/lhr4

Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Either way, I wish these people would just leave > or stop banging on about leaving. Devon, wasn't it?

She's probably married to the guy who wrote the first article about leaving. They cooked the whole thing up together over the weekend when they were short of copy.

An authenticity bore on a neighbouring table took the shine off my first meal at The Begging Bowl when it first opened. Put a sock in it! I don't care how well you know they place! And stop reading out the names of the dishes with that oh-so authentic pronunciation and accent.. you sound like a plonker! Anyway, it was delicious.

hell is.. other people's children

Having a glass of wine in the park is 'a bit scummy'?

The piece makes the point but in a pretty clunky and cheesy way. One thing's definitely for sure: journalism is absolutely 'the profession that eats itself' - on a weekly basis.

whymewhynow - Firstly, I agree with you on City: the potential for development and material change to flight patterns in and out of there will be a real issue for some. Of course I don't believe HACAN is part of sinister plot to hide the truth: but by the same token, neither is Heathrow: information on every single flight path, altitude and time flown over - accurate to the very house more or less - has been freely available to the public for years, provided by an independent third party. All someone had to do - if they were sufficiently interested - was collect it (or a representative sample of it) before each year of available data expired. Considering most of the protest meetings consist of people adamant they're starting to be plagued by more planes than there were before I find it amazing that no-one seems to have just, you know, counted them - so they know for sure. Could there be a more obvious thing to do? So I did: half an hour out of a day every few years, just out of interest. Less time than some on here have spent ranting subjectively with no hard evidence to speak of! And for me: save a small % increase, on a typical westerly operations day for Heathrow, roughly the same number of aircraft, starting at 4.30am, flew near my house along the same flight paths in 2008 - as did last week. So now I know. And if things change I'll know as well. Maybe it's different for you where you are, I couldn't say. As with so many things - sometimes if you want something done and no-one else seems willing you have to do it yourself.

James if you read this thread - and hear similar discussions in other parts of London, the basic question people want answered is 'has something changed? Is it worse than it used to be?'. Most people accept the status quo: it's the suspicion that The Powers That Be have pulled a fast one under their noses that drives them crazy. When I moved here ten years back, the first thing I thought was 'bloody hell those planes are loud' - having come from somewhere I hadn't heard them. So, being a bit of a bore, I looked at the approach data. Oh right, I see I'm on a flight path. Yes, they start at this time in the morning. This is how high they are. This is how frequent. Being yet more of a bore, I've kept an eye on the approach data over the years. A small (negligible) increase in frequency to Heathrow. (City has increased though). So I know the facts, at least for my specific location. I have objective data - and I can stop wetting my pants with anger about it 'being different' and 'getting worse' as a result. Perhaps HACAN is not interested in collecting data because it's not in their interests to possibly uncover data that will make people 'less angry' about flights, thus undermining their agenda? Perhaps collecting useful data is just a bit dull and less fun than a photo op. Perhaps no-one could be arsed. Who knows.

HELLO ALL - great to be back. The thing that's always puzzled me about HACAN is this: the thrust (no pun intended, plane fans) of the argument (and indeed the argument's' on here) are the same: that there are aircraft flying over places they didn't previously - and possibly more of them and at lower altitudes. Fair enough. So.. Bearing in mind that it would have been perfectly possible to collect and collate radar data over a period of years to prove or disprove this - and that this would singularly prove to be THE best weapon available (if it were found to be true) - bearing all this in mind.. why didn't they? Lesson: Spend more time collecting data which is useful Spend less time arranging a few hundred people on a hill spelling out 'no'

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- This is a much repeated load of old toss that > comes up every time we have this debate. Kids in > Spain ans Italy runabout like maniacs in bars and > restaurants as much as in the UK and also far far > later into the night. People in these countries > are just more kid tolerant. totes In Spain, there are still loads of kids knocking around bars and restaurants at midnight and no-one cares. In England, if you're in a pub or a restaurant at any time, guaranteed someone, somewhere on the premises, is quietly hating you - no matter now well-behaved your kids are. That's the difference.

I agree with Boris on this one. Whilst there are still plenty of places within inner London in need of regeneration, developers need to be kept away from the cheaper-to-utilise greenfield sites further out. 'Cos if they are given the choice, they'll (of course) go for profit/margin and leave the more-expensive-to-develop stuff to rot.

The problem is that most people who are desperate to get a foot on the ladder in London are too young to remember a crash of any long term significance - but old enough to remember when doom-mongers told them they'd be foolish to buy anything in 2008 (or whenever it was) - and then looked on as house prices accelerated even more out of reach.

Just make sure you check her bag for matches on the way out

Good stuff.. will check 'em out

Why does anyone have a 'right' to live and work anywhere? It's a bizarre concept IMO. Sometimes you can't live and work somewhere - in which case, you move. As I did - and many of the people I know. Some to London, some out of London, some out of the country. That's life; change, adaptation, no guarantees, do what you need to do. I agree it's the media articles that drive me potty though - not 'people'. The articles always seem to be written by someone who's just moved from Hackney to Brighton.

I know it's sacrilege an' all but I'm a bit on that page with (whispers) Happy Mondays

Jezuz.. social media is awash with this stuff today! If you're leaving the party, just get your things, say a few quick goodbyes and go. There's no need to go around telling everyone you're leaving soon, then around again to say you're on your way out and then stand at the door shouting 'I AM LEAVING NOW - EVERYONE STOP AND LISTEN TO THE REASONS WHY WHICH I HAVE DRESSED UP AS WIDER SOCIAL COMMENT BUT IS REALLY MOSTLY JUST ABOUT ME and I'm short of copy this week and this stuff gets lapped-up at the moment'