
Louisa
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Everything posted by Louisa
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Also, don't underestimate the fact Nigel is about to lose his job in The European Parliament and probably will want to try and become an MP ASAP. Louisa.
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This is now a full blown constitutional crisis....
Louisa replied to WorkingMummy's topic in The Lounge
I have respect for people's opinion, but on this I can no longer justify the decision that has been made. Not only have we, the brexit supporters been lied to in a big way. We have also overseen the potential collapse of our political system as well as upsetting the international community, many of them close friends and allies. We have also allowed a vacuum to develop in which some rather distasteful opinions have emerged which are making some people who are guests and great contributors to our country feel unwelcome and deeply troubled. Foxy and toffee, you have both been lied to on this and that really isn't any exaggeration. We need to respect the fact that some people have been hit quite hard by this decision we have made and it seems to me that we should now have a period of calm reflection, in which some of us hold our hands up, admit we have been wrong- and somehow help to fix the mess we have unknowingly unleashed on the population. Louisa. -
Utter turmoil within parliamentary Labour Party. Six shadow cabinet members resigned, one sacked and yet there is a petition of more than 100,000 signatures to a petition to keep Corbyn as leader. He will stay, having lost the parliamentary parties trust and the party will fragment. Utter chaos. To top this, we still are waiting to find out who will be PM and when the chancellor is coming out his bunker to provide some answers to all the questions we have. Two political parties in utter chaos. Louisa.
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We can concentrate on growing our own grapes for wine because tariffs on decent European wines will be extortionate. Louisa.
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We have some breaking news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244 The SNP is considering vetoing the entire referendum result. Louisa.
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midivydale Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Do people genuinely believe that the rest of > Europe has any interest at all in providing > Britain with a "Norway style" "deal"?! Interesting point midivydale. The rest of the EU does not have any interest in doing anything favourable for us. My only hope is that Merkal and her amours pragmatism can somehow deliver us from this mess with some sort of helpful outcome. A Norway style deal will may be possible, but with much tougher terms and I really can't see it being agreed to in just two years, way too much anger around in the EU for consensus on this. Louisa.
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Also I agree with your sentiments above WM. I think Boris has been dealt a hammer blow by Cameron on this one. He now is stuck between a rock and a hard place and has zero room for manoeuvre. He can't go for Norway style settlement without pissing off everyone who voted for brexit, including me, who wanted the freedom of movement curbs. Much the same as Michael Hestletine ousting Thatcher in 1990, the assassin won't necessarily get the prize they had been hoping for. Louisa.
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What happens if article 50 is not invoked until a Conservative Party leadership contest has been decided? Will this damage our negotiating hand? Can the EU force article 50 and the ticking clock upon us without us notifying them? I do not have much time for David Cameron, but I do think deep down he had the best interests of the country at heart, unlike some of those on the other side who now appear to be waking up to the realities of brexit. Louisa.
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What's all the more harrowing for me, is seeing some of the awful racism that has been emboldened by the brexit vote, something I never wanted nor even began to consider before Friday. I've seen some shocking reports of hate crime across the country, including here in London. Not only has it (allegedly) been aimed at EU workers, but also at third or forth generation Brits with an Asian or Afro-Carribbean heritage, and that makes me so very very sad. I would just like to assure everyone my intentions were never to legitimise any form of hatred aimed at anyone, that's so far from the type of person I am and the way I think and feel. I am hopeful that much of this is only low level reactionary responses from the most despicable people in our country, and isn't reflective of the majority who voted for brexit because they wanted genuine democratic change. As you say above civilservant, we must now try and salvage something from this messy situation, and I am hopeful that Blah's analysis of a Norgwegian style deal will be possible, or perhaps even another referendum. Last time I ever take at face value the words of people who squander my democratic right within 24 hours of me voting for them. Louisa.
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Fox I have already told myself I will not be visiting M&S paying for over the odds ready meals full of salt and processed fat - when I could have done the same thing at Iceland for 1/3 of the price! It's a disgrace IMO. Louisa.
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Quids if only I could still shop there! Good to see some humour back on the forum. Louisa.
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Cameron has not only overseen the first breakup of the UK, he's managed to unleash an entirely avoidable scenario by allowing this disastrous remain campaign to fail, and consequently engineer a second Scottish independence referendum alongside rocking the fragile peace process in Northern Ireland - and that's before we even get into the topic of the economic, social and political consequences of the brexit vote which people like me have naively fallen for in the hope of creating a better world. As each hour passes the more regretful I become. Louisa.
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It must be the first time in history that both main political parties are in ruins over pressing the self destruct button, leaving the SNP to take full advantage of the situation. Very sad. Louisa.
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Genuinely am quite upset about this whole situation now. Thought I was doing the right thing. Isn't it amazing what 24 hours of reflection can do? Thanks for being understanding everyone. I may sign the petition calling for a second referendum. Or maybe I should just keep my mouth shut from now on. Louisa.
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After taking some time to read up a bit more about the EU, as well as the informative posts above. I am starting to have a jittery moment of doubt, where, against the backdrop of my reactionary brexit vote, I am genuinely wondering if I have done the right thing. I've seen first hand the economic and social conditions these poor English and Welsh regions have experienced, and I felt very strongly about them finally getting a voice. A voice which they have been deprived of by successive governments. I am going to have to confess that, now reality is kicking in about this result, and I am having doubts about my judgement. As I stated yesterday I am far from jubilant, and maybe this is because I never really thought this would be the outcome. I have never been a fan of the EU and its institutions, but without knowing terribly much about them I have often used the print media as my first port of call for information about how they work and indeed this perhaps to a degree has clouded my outlook somewhat. The EU institutions have always felt distant and undemocratic to me, and if I'm being honest I wanted to give them a kick up the backside so they could become more accessible to the very people they claim to represent. Now, after reading the above posts I am genuinely worried that this kick up the backside has turned into something far greater and more profound for our country and it sets my heart beating a little faster thinking about the consequences. To conclude, I am not sorry for having an opinion on this, but I am sorry that the outcome of this referendum has gone far beyond I or most brexit supporters could possibly have ever imagined. I wanted 350 mil extra for the NHS promised by the brexit campaign and Farage has already backtracked on this, I wanted immigration controls so the poorest communities could no longer be put under infrastructural stresses and strains, and if we get a deal it will probably involve the free movement of people but without a UK veto. I want democracy and national sovereignty returned to the people, and it seems an unlikely outcome now. I really am sorry I have misinterpreted the consequences of this referendum and I just hope this decision I've made will not harm future generations when I am long gone. Louisa.
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For the umpteenth time, it would not be in the interests of the rest of the EU to stop trading with us and therefore they would want a swift deal which would make it easy for everyone, regardless of the hot air surrounding brexit. I hear lots of people talking about us tearing up years worth of trade deals and special clauses within deals we are already embedded in, and the damage this will do. The fact remains, we have to renegotiate pretty much everything and we need someone at the helm who will fight our corner to ensure we come out of this with the very best deal we can. I concede that the single market is something we will probably be forced to take on unless we decide to completely cut all ties with Europe which clearly would be ludicrous. Louisa.
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Blah, the margins are narrow I agree, but the turnout was impressive overall and this is the nature of a referendum. The divide between young and old, poor and wealthy, north are south are profound and I make no bones about that. But it is democracy in action, this government gave us the option to decide on this and narrowly, on a high turnout we did so. We now have to work with this decision, it's imperative that we do. The temporary financial turbulence was predicated by most, but invariably it will settle down and the EU are already wanting to start negotiations with us. I am positive we can reach a compromise to keep both sides of the argument happy. Boris Johnson and his political future was always going to play a part in this decision, and I do not think we should be giving him and his friends the agenda now. It's about the UK and our future, not one or two passing politicians. Cameron shouldn't have resigned so early, and he should be leading the way not now flouncing away like a spoilt child. I would personally be rather sceptical about the bravado from all sides on this and just be patient and wait for the dust to settle. Angela Merkal is st heart a pragmatic politician who will co-operate with us in time, and I think we need a strong negotiating hand in Brussels to talk to these people once the shock factor has retreated somewhat. All the long term signs are that we will reach an agreement which will continue to involve us remaining in the single market with the acceptance of freedom of movement, and I think most people have been thinking that for sometime. Louisa.
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"Outgoing PM David Cameron is under pressure to speed up "divorce" talks with the EU, as Brussels says it wants to start exit negotiations immediately. European Commission President Jean Claude Juncker said it was "not an amicable divorce, but it was not exactly a tight love affair anyway". Taken from a BBC News article. Mr Juncker choosing to isolate rather than embrace the 48.1% of the British electorate who opted for remain. And people think this horrid man has any respect for democracy? Think again. Louisa.
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Edited because on reflection it was inappropriate considering thread title and consequences for thread author. Louisa.
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I quite liked that Scottish woman who I think heads the Tories north of the border. She seemed to have charisma for sure. Louisa.
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WorkingMummy of course I have empathy for you and others who have/will suffer as a result of this decision. It was never going to be easy, and as I have conceded multiple times on this forum, we have a tough few years ahead for everyone and we cannot underestimate the road ahead. I can only imagine it is devestating for those directly affected, but it's early days and we cannot be sure what will happen so do not lose hope. The EU may well try and make brexit difficult, it may have to prevent a growing backlash in other countries tempted by the jump ship mentality, who knows? Either way, we have to make this work. In terms of some people being cavalier, I think you perhaps misinterpret the absolute feeling of isolation and resentment in the poorest regions of England. Stakeholders in this EU project, many of whom have qualified for regional donations to support deprived communities. They have a great deal of personal attachment to this vote, some are below the poverty line and have desperately been waiting for this day to finally have a voice. So as much as I respect and appreciate your predicament, don't underestimate or dismiss the similar position others have been in for some years now. Louisa.
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LM with respect, the 'people' who are at the heart of any 'deal' for this country, are not people I personally will be paying much notice to. The likes of Jean-Claude Juncker, who had the audacity for a last minute intervention yesterday to say "out means out", followed by "make it quick", and then in a press conference today in response to a British journalist asking if this was the "beginning of the end for the EU", a moments silence followed by an abrupt "no" and flounce off stage. This man, and his ilk, summarise perfectly for me and all those who voted out, why we have zero respect for these arrogant, unelected bureaucrats with nothing but contempt and aloofness for democracy. I say, you throw us your scraps from the dining room table, in the meantime we will be looking elsewhere for a hot meal. Contempt is what I have for the EU, and many many people in this country and elsewhere in the EU feel exactly the same. I say to Juncker and co this, ignore the will of the people at your peril. Louisa.
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A decision has been made. It may not be what you want, but that's democracy. We are a United Kingdom and we voted as such, all those irrelevant arguments about Scotland and London being "dragged out" against its wishes are not relevant here. They (Scotland) voted to remain in the UK two years ago, London is the capital of the entire UK, BOTH regions should accept that at a national referendum level they have lost in this democratic process and have NO direct say as a region, that's life unfortunantely. As for the UK's chances of receiving a generous deal, why are all the experts jumping to conclusions on this. None of us are at the negotiating table, we have no idea what sort of deal we are going to be given. It may be generous it may not, we have nothing to judge this by. No other nation has exited the EU and/or been forced to renegotiate terms of trade. Let's wait and see please. Louisa.
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Isn't democracy a great thing? Scotland had a vote a few years back, decided to stay. The Scottish Government was then re-elected with a decent mandate this year (legitimacy), and that government then decided to use this referendum result to table a second referendum. I love our democracy, I love how it works, and I love how the bureaucrats in the EU are forced to eat their words following some sanctimonious posturing over the last few days to scare the people into continuing to line their autocratic pockets. If Scotland wants another referendum let them have it! Louisa.
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From an economic point of view, the EU have wanted to put most financial service into Frankfurt for many years, it's not exactly a secret. If anything, the Germans will now be appalled that this particular venture could be undercut by Brexit, a move which will independently allow us in the UK to create a far more competitive environment for multinationals- something the Germans will no doubt be held back by the EU institutions it so cherishes. Louisa.
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