Louisa

Maybe what is considered anti social to others isn't to you richard tudor. But then, you're not living on Railway Rise are you? So why would it bother you? Louisa.

I do not for a moment condone the reaction of the person living at one of the cottages. That is indeed anti social. But equally, you can't escape from the fact that a private road should not be used for dropping off/picking up as it sets a precedent. If the land owner does not want people to use the private road for that purpose then anyone partaking in pick ups and drop offs is in breach of the owners wishes and it becomes a civil matter. Louisa.

I agree with edhistory, it's anti-social and a civil matter. It's out of order to use a private road for any reason other than to visit one of the businesses on/off of it, or to visit people living in residential properties on it. Simple as that. Stop your vehicle somewhere else. Louisa.

Don't speak too soon Seabag. I'm always up for a class conversation. Louisa.

Blah not at all. And it isn't down to you whether I or anyone else should feel patronised by your attempt at 'winning us over' to your side of the argument, is it? If you are attempting to make a point and get people to vote in line with your pro-argument, surely you should think to yourself "how is this coming across? Am I being informative? What can I do to get them on side?", but no unfortunantely you've taken a different path which feels like being shouted at by a school teacher. That won't win me over I'm afraid. You need to realise that your 'IN' argument falls in line with the political and urban intelligentsia line, and therefore the last thing you should be doing in support of staying in is to wag your finger at the opposing camp, who are just lay people who see the EU as bureaucractic. You'll only encourage the anti establishment movement, just as happened in Scotland. Louisa.

Nothing contradictory in my argument. I will be voting no for the reasons I stated previously, but I also take on board what others have said about allowing arguments to fall into chaos. In your argument Blah, you don't just try and make the point, you question a persons ability to make a sound decision, if it doesn't fall in line with yours. That's patronising. Presenting me and others with one sided articles to back up your claims isn't going to win a sceptic such as myself over easily. I've not done that, and I've tried my best not to be overly emotive. Louisa.

Opinions and facts cannot be conflated. It's fine to state why you think we should stay/leave, but coming out with unfounded wild assumptions about the future of our country, aren't doing anyone any good. It's confusing for people. And that goes for both sides of the argument. I am happy to say I want us to leave, and I don't know what the future may hold as a result, but my opinion is, it won't be any worse than the status quo. Louisa.

At the end of this lengthy and tiresome four month build up to, and the Election Day itself, we know two things for absolute certain. 1) we might stay in 2) we might leave Beyond that, Otta is of course correct. All the bar-stall EDF political pundits, know bugger all about anything. Louisa.

And ditto what foxy said. This union will collapse, the Euro will fragment into a two tier currency, and the refugee crisis will worsen. By leaving, we avoid all of this mess. And believe me, Germany, France and all the other big players will come flooding towards us with investment once the collapse starts happening. Louisa.

You're all lunatics! Sheepishly following the Westminster elite into the economic wilderness of the EU, where unlike top dogs Germany and France, who can freely stroll the exercise yard with all the other 'prisoners', we will be chained and thrown into a padded isolation cell and left to rot, other than at meal times when we are allowed to the table, as long as we don't speak (or get shouted down by the rest if we do). Louisa.

Cameron has made no effort whatsoever. It's all hot air, and no substance. The fundamental issues that make people on both ends of the political spectrum angry about this institution have not, will not and most importantly NEVER will be addressed whilst we remain in a political union. Outside of this union we have a chance to create a future in which we define our own destiny. I understand and take on board, previous commentary about us leaving and not having influence by lacking a seat at the table whilst remaining a trading partner, but I would this is all hear say. No country has left this union, no other European country outside of the EU which continues to trade with it has a population or economy as large as us. Do not doubt the unknown, embrace it and see it as an opportunity to do better. I envisage a future where we can get out waters back, fishing and agriculture being returned to our own hands. Coal and steel being mined once more. This leap into the dark, is more a leap into the garden of Eden. Anyone who believes we are top table decision maker is delusional, we never will be inside the EU. Louisa.

Why do you believe it to be fanciful rah, what evidence do you have to prove that we would not get better terms than the ones we currently have? The Irish and Germans are already panicking at the thought of brexit because the UK is one of the biggest trading partners within the union, and even if we decided to leave (against their wishes), they would have to deal with that by renegotiating terms which would benefit them as much as us. At present we are one nation amongst many, pumping money in for membership of an organisation where we have very little influence over matters anyway. Being outside won't change that situation, but we may be able to change terms of trade to benefit us, who knows? There are no guarantees but at least we are actively seeking a better solution for our own benefit. Louisa.

That's rubbish. Why are you europhiles spouting such unfounded rubbish? Where is the evidence to prove that the EU would stop trading with us? We would have to sit down and renegotiate our terms of trade with them, and it is likely to be nothing like the deal struck between Norway and Switzerland. We are a major player, and they need us as much as we need them. All of the above including freedom of movement and trading tariffs would be up for discussion and we would reach a mutual settlement for everyone's benefit. Suggesting a lorry driver would become unemployed is hypothetical nonsense and based on no firm facts. Louisa.

Blah Blah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Quite malumbu. Farage is completely to blame for > ths one, strange as most of his party rely on the > EU for their jobs. Completely agree rahrah. Wrong wrong and wrong again. Farage is not 'to blame', he is a symptom of a bigger problem which is systemic in this country. Lots of us are anti EU because it stands against our principles of democracy and internationalism. The EU is a closed shop for members only, as you've already confirmed in earlier statements. As a nation, this issue has been bubbling away for decades now, so to blame it on some madcap right wingers is short sighted. I also don't think Farage & Co give two hoots about losing their EU jobs, the whole point of their party is to get us out of the EU is it not? > Your second paragraph Louisa are the reasons why > we should STAY in Europe. If you say so. For me, and people who think like me, the EU in its present form is absolutely every reason why getting out is the only hope we have as a country. If we remain we will be in a declining over regulated market place, dominated by the Germans and French, with us continually sidelined. Leaving the EU will open up a bigger market place and may just encourage growth in the poorer regions where forty plus years of membership of this organisation has done zilch for the poorest parts of our country. Maybe we don't want input into EU affairs, maybe we would rather create our own human rights legislation, control our own borders, work out who we want to trade with etc etc. The 200bn of trade deals will not stop, the trade tariffs are irrelevant because the money we spend on membership (7bn?) will more than make up for any tariffs charged (not that the EU would charge one of the largest economies in Europe if they had a brain between them, we aren't Norway or Switzerland, there's 60 million plus of us). Your whole line of attack on this is flawed Blah. Louisa.

Good point. I've not considered my gutters to be the issue before. Louisa.

Without hopes and dreams what are we? Nothing. Unlike some of the negative comments above, I personally have a positive view of this country. Yes, not very fashionable, granted, but why not vote for hope rather than scaremonger? I see leaving a centralised institution as a step forward, a chance to change things for the better, and yes, embrace democracy. You remember what that word means anyone? If the Tories get their way (and sidelined New Labour), we will end up an irrelevant nation state in a union of increasing members, with a falling influence on world affairs and a gradually declining percentage of world economic output. Is that what you all want for your kids? Just to keep Cameron and his political chums happy and in work for the coming decades. Thank god Boris has done the right thing, for once. Louisa.

Ok then let's reshape this argument. At present we have no control over our borders, this in turn affects infrastructure and exacerbates the housing crisis. By leaving, we are able to control fundamental aspects of our being as a state, without influence or regulation from Europe. Comparing the free trade deals of small nations such as Norway and Switzerland to us is laughable. We are one of the richest countries on earth for goodness sakes. Let's say, very worst case scenario the EU member states decide we can only trade with them based on their terms, including strict tariffs and decisions we will not be privy to without a place at the table (totally hypothetical because this just would not happen, but let's go along with it). So what? We can now trade with whoever we want to trade with can we not? Europe turns its back on one its biggest and wealthiest trading partners (bizarre move), we go to emerging markets in the wider world, open ties with former and current commonwealth friends and allies who would make up for any losses from Europe. The arguments against us leaving have no foundation in fact, full stop. Louisa.

-The EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries to overcome such tariffs, and is currently negotiating a number of other agreements. -EU now exempts services and many goods from duties anyway. In 2009 UK charged customs duty of just 1.76% on non-EU imports. This is so low that the EU Common Market is basically redundant as a customs union with tariff walls. -The EU is not the place where most economic growth is occurring. The EU?s share of world GDP is forecast to decline to 22% in 2025, down from 37% in 1973. -Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship. -Furthermore, Britain?s best trading relationships are generally not within the EU, but outside, i.e. with countries such as the USA and Switzerland. -The largest investor in the UK is not even an EU country, but the US. http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/ Louisa.

http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/Briefing_1502_The%20EU%20Jobs%20Myth_web.pdf Have a read of this article Blah. Louisa.

Blah Blah, are you implying that upon exit, all of this would overnight stop? I don't get your argument. It will continue to happen because the trading relationship between us and the EU would not stop. It wouldn't be in either parties intest for that to happen. Scaremongering. Find a better argument, if you have one. Louisa.

And how exactly is getting half back what we put in a good deal? You've lost me here. So we stay in, get back half what we put in, or pull out and don't put anything in and keep it all for ourselves? Bizarre comment. We are not a socialist country, but my point isn't that. I'm suggesting social democrats take a look at the bigger picture before dismissing traditional socialists as dinosaurs. Personally I would rather keep my own money than give it to someone else to look after, who gives me it back in scraps when they feel like it (and rips me off by only giving me back half in the process). If we kept our money, we could redistribute it where it needs to be spent in the poor regions of the UK, rather than being sent to former soviet states in the east (who's populations come here to work too and take that money back with them to their home economies). The point about millions of jobs being directly impacted is false. It's a non-starter I'm afraid. Business will continue and people will continue to be employed whether we remain inside or outside of the European project. We will continue to have trade deals with France, Ireland, Germany et al because they are exporting more to us than we are to them. It would impact their economies if they stopped trading with us. It's pure scaremongering Blah. The positive to this argument of course, is that not only would we continue to trade with our European partners upon exit of the EU, but we could also strike up trade deals with emerging markets in Asia, South America and Africa. Arguably, more important long term than Europe. Louisa.

I would love to know where you get your data from Blah Blah, because not ONCE in every single financial year since joining this organisation, has the UK received more back than its paid in. Net Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received back, in every single year of membership. The poor regions of this country could negotiate a better deal from their own national government by way of devolution within our own political union than they ever could from a multinational organisation such as the EU. Pull out, and this deficit is immediately rectified. Any socialist worth their weight in curved bananas would tell you that the EU gives national governments a get out clause for not pumping investment where it should be spent. We have natural resources in the ground we could utilise in this country, and we could negotiate a good deal without EU red tape. Why do social democrats always bring the environment into arguments? This is about the economic and political freedom of our population against elitism. Only a true socialist would ever be able to understand that. The EU is not the only reason we have employment rights, but it is the main reason we have so many restrictions preventing people from prospering from a low starting point. So many more working class people would be able to go it alone in a country free from EU regulation. And where are these magical 'millions' of jobs that rely on the EU? Another made up fact? Less than 200,000 jobs would be directly impacted (if that), as a result of us leaving political union with continental Europe. Louisa.

I have taken everyone's advise and left all upstairs windows partially open whilst at home. Being fairly mild at the moment makes it easier. It has not yet returned but I suppose it's a little too early to know yet. Thinking about it, the small area of damp I have downstairs is entirely different to this mould growth that's happened upstairs, so I am hoping this will make a difference. I actually find it easier to breath and sleep at night with windows open too. Louisa.

Blah Blah, if you care about the working people and poor of this country, then putting patriotic sentimentality to one side for a moment (personally sick to death of the right wing crap associated with leaving the EU), the best thing you could possibly do is to vote to leave this union of elitist bureaucrats. As an independent nation we could have flexibility to trade with the wider world and pump money and industry back into the poorer regions where deindustrialisatiom has blighted working communities for decades now. Get the coal mines up and running again, build ships on the Clyde, protect our ailing steel industry. Going it alone would be the most exciting and anti establishment move we could make. Let's stick two fingers upto the political elite who wants jobs for life in Europe, and hand the power back to the poor. Louisa.

My biggest fear is if we remain, this club will continue to expand into poorer regions of former soviet Europe; and beyond. This will lead to a more competitive union, with many northern EU net contributors falling further behind, whilst continuing to fund poorer nations who, on the whole, join the club to take out rather than put in. The issues of border controls, international security and investment/trade are all red herrings. These things will continue regardless of whether we remain or leave. The key point should be, we get to choose our own economic destiny by not being shackled by the EU and prevented from trading with a much wider global market. It's a no brainer for me. If only people were given the facts, I think we would have left this centralised monster years ago. Louisa.