DuncanW

It was good. The weather came and went a bit, but we mainly kept dry. The only covered area with music was tooo busy but the other stages were fine. It got quite muddy and I guess will stay that way. So don?t wear your favourite shoes :) And most importantly, have fun!!

Burgess Park, Brockwell Park and Crystal Palace Park all have similar events with large crowds and amplified music.

Indeed -- something we all can all agree on?

Commercial diesel vehicles are included, I thought. Buses emit more pollution per vehicle than cars, but way less per journey taken. But then you already knew that... :(

Who says embarrassing the government is a crime?? It's news to me

Fair!

Let's not forget, the number one reason that local government would like to reduce private car travel is to reduce localised pollution to improve the quality of the air we all breathe. Climate change is obviously a factor too, but the driver (scuse the pun) is air quality in our neighbourhood(s) This is from TFL: Air quality myth #2 Myth: Road vehicles aren't the main cause of London's air pollution FACT: Driving polluting vehicles is the single biggest cause, contributing to around half of the air pollution in London https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/air-quality So I would respectfully suggest that arguments about gas boilers and coal fired power stations in China are red herrings when it comes to this debate. Important topics though they may be in their own right.

Lounge?

None taken - not by me anyway. Just thought the link would be helpful.

https://thisisgala.co.uk/sustainability/

Was it not for the multiple in line responses?

Rocket, is that comment definitely for me? I don?t recognise what it?s in response to?

I'm not giving you information about where I live. I think I made that clear earlier. You're obviously not going to engage on the matters of substance I asked you about. That's fine, it's up to you. I genuinely hope everything works out for you. I would not like to be in the situation where I felt my road was becoming more congested and polluted.

heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Everything Duncan..everything. So you live in an > LTN, probably in a house with a garden and own at > least one car I guess. Good on yer lad, it?s that > way of thinking that has made Engerland the > marvellous country it is today. > > If you are wealthy you can move into an LTN, if > you are poor ... you have no choice but to stay > living on your polluted ?main? road. Heartblock - the fact you're missing is that I haven't once voiced anything to suggest that I am pro LTN. Like most people on this thread, I am certainly in favour of reducing congestion and pollution and I'm open-minded about how we achieve that. I think that reducing private car journeys needs to be part of that, but understand there are different views on how effective LTNs are, and how significant the externalities are. The points I'd questioned you on though were your claims that the people living in EDG, LL and Croxted are the poorest in Southwark, and that the council is a dictatorship. I tried to say it softly but the reality is both of those claims are objectively false - and the size or location of my home, doesn't change that. The elected council, what you would no doubt call the MSM and assorted scientists seem to think LTNS do work, but as I have said before, residents of the affected roads deserve to have their voices heard. I just wish you could focus on constructing a more cogent and compelling case for removal of the LTNs, rather than these flights of fancy that seem to preoccupy you, and personal attacks based on your assumptions about other people's personal circumstances. And by the way, living in a house with a garden isn't a way of thinking, is it? Or can you explain that to me?

Sorry Heartblock, my mum told me not to give my details out to strangers on the Internet. Not really sure what that?s got to do with the discussion points in hand either if I?m honest.

I?m not conflating anything. I?m arguing that your claim the communities living in Croxted, EDG and LL are the poorest in the borough, is false. And the same about LB Southwark being a dictatorship. Of course there is a leadership group that steers the council. That doesn?t equate to dictatorship. And the party may well lose seats, they haven?t always controlled this borough, even in recent times. That is how democracy works. You can?t have it both ways?

Fair point. Though I think it?s true to say congestion at that junction predates the recently introduced LTNs.

Heartblock, I don't think the residents of Croxted, EDG and LL represent the 'poorest in the borough' - I'm sure there's a mix of demographics on all those roads but that seems pretty wide of the mark. It's also worth noting that most of the high density social housing in Southwark, where there would be lower levels of affluence are already in LTNs. Keeping it local, the Lordship Lane, Dog Kennel Hill and Dawsons Heights estates are all closed off to through traffic - and this is also generally true of the larger estates in the north of the borough. And in what way is LB Southwark a dictatorship? Labour hold over three quarters of the seats in Southwark because people vote for them. There are elections next year - if they are unpopular, they will get voted out.

Then they built a whopping, great big, new school on East Dulwich Grove!! And reopened two old ones either side of Peckham Rye!! That's a fair amount of increased capacity, no? The area where it's toughest to get a Dulwich school from (in ED) is round Friern Road/Underhill Road ends - from there, you are likely to get FHB or Sydenham. Those schools are quite easy to get to from that part of East Dulwich so no real need to drive, and if those families were to drive, they wouldn't be going passed there new LTN areas. Regardless of all that - school catchment areas don't expand when demand is high, they contract. It's really simple stuff!!

Demand for school places reduces catchment area size normally - not the other way round Some older children may travel further for schools - but how many 13-15 yr old kids are being dropped off by mummy in the mornings?? Most would rather crawl over nails to get there, surely?? Schools alongside councils have done a lot to try to counter traffic issues - most visibly, the school street closures that many primary schools now have, but also via education and persuasion, walking buses, active school travel days, bikeability courses, improvements to cycle infrastructure, greater enforcement of infractions - sure they could do more still, but are you seriously saying you're not aware of any of this stuff

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Wind Street is always edgy LOL True story - but this was std Wind St edgy cranked up a good couple of notches :)

Cardiff City have a notorious football firm (hooligan element) - they have intense and violent rivalries with Swansea and others. None of these would come out to welcome fans if England played in Cardiff?? I've been away to Swansea and the fans (we met) couldn't have been nicer. I've also been out in Wine St, Swansea on a Saturday night when Swansea City had been promoted the same day. I was with family (no kids) and some friends from overseas. The atmosphere went from boisterous to edgy, quite quickly. I made the call that we shouldn't be there and we left promptly in a taxi. Most likely nothing would have happened...

NotImpressed is an inveterate Troll - that's for sure. It's a shame he or she doesn't seem to feel any sympathy for this family who clearly had an upsetting experience. There is nothing factually inaccurate in the post above though. There is often trouble at England matches, in and around the stadium and en route to and from. This trouble is by no means limited to England fans, but followers of our national team do seem to be amongst the more regular offenders. Add to the mix, the biggest fixture in recent times played at night, and the drinking that comes with that. When the Danish FA sought out ex-pats and their families to replace the normal Danish football fans who couldn't travel, perhaps they should have provided better advice. It's certainly freely available elsewhere: "You should avoid wearing football shirts or showing any kind of support for any football team because such shows of support might end violently since some rivalries are taken very seriously in the UK." from https://www.travelsafe-abroad.com/united-kingdom/ The incident was a minor one. If the man felt he was assaulted,then that's a matter for the police (and there would be CCTV as it was on a bus) not really for a matter the national media. It seems the man himself and his boy recognise that saying "it was more annoying drunk fans than terror"

Cat - I don't think you're a racist or a troll. It seems like you have put quite a lot of thought into this, but now seem to be contorting to defend an entrenched position you don't really believe in yourself. I get thet you don't like the taking of the knee and don't think it's the best way to protest against racism. I think that's fair enough - you're entitled to that view. I also have reservations about it as the best form of protest, but for different reasons, and perhaps not so deeply held as you. For me, it started as a protest by sports people in the US who were refusing to stand for their national anthem before fixtures. As I understand it, players (initially Kaepernick) felt they couldn't stand for the anthem of a state that was systemically brutalising and killing black people. He had initially remained seated, but an ex marine suggested to him that just looked lazy/disengaged and suggested kneeling. Thankfully we don't have police regularly killing black citizens here. We also don't play a national anthem before matches, so to me it feels a bit misplaced in some ways. Some black players don't like it also - Wilf Zaha has declined to do it and says that he shouldn't have to kneel in order not to be racially abused. These are all viewpoints of people who are against racism. They're all valid I guess. But for me, as long as the players themselves feel this is the way they wish to further their cause against this vile abuse they are subjected to, as well as the wider racism in society, they have my full support. It doesn't matter if I think it's the best way or not - I don't have agency in the matter and I don't have skin in the game. I simply have the binary choice to show support or not. Why would you not take the same psoition?

He won't though