ianr

I'm taking the liberty of posting copies of a letter in the file from the woman, the sole item from her directly, and an MOD note. I'll leave them up for a few days. It may at least save the NA server some work. The other stuff is just a letter to her from the MOD and internal emails confirming no military activity in the area. I'm thinking it possible that there may have been an element of some police officers 'having a larf'.

> No one in their right mind can honestly say that they are alright with the prospect of some of Southwarks biggest criminals travelling > down to ED on a daily basis What are they going to do here?

It's contained within several hundred MB of files downloadable free from the National Archives for the next month. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/news/609.htm The following is from the 397kB Highlights Guide to the set. The file of DEFE 24/2035/1, which will contain images of the report, among many others, is 28.7MB. Mork and Mindy visit East Dulwich. DEFE 24/2035/1, p217-18, contains an account of ?some lights, formed in a worm shape, wriggling around in the sky? that were seen in the sky by a woman and her daughter from East Dulwich, London, in the early hours of 10 January 2003. The pair became concerned about ?a possible terrorist attack? and phoned police who sent officers to the address. The following day the older woman called MoD and told the UFO desk officer the two PCs were joined by two men in ?space suits, with dark glasses who called themselves Mork and Mindy?these men told her not to look at the object because of possible radiation and they carried a transmitter which kept clicking.? They asked her not to talk to anyone in case of panic and offered to wash their eyes with a solution. Police told MoD they sent two ordinary PCs to the address but ?they could not see anything in the sky and concluded it was possibly a reflection of a star and a street light in her window.? In a letter dated 21 January 2003 the woman says ?your men have fed us with a lot of rubbish, presumably to make us look foolish and our story unbelievable, which they have succeeded in doing.?

northlondoner> Ian R - hmmm can't make up my mind if I'm pissed off at apparently gratuitous mention of ethnicity. I was worrying and teetering either way myself, both before and after posting. But it wasn't intended gratuitously. The thing that was in my mind, and that I wanted to be available to readers, was that there's probably going to be one less male role model for kids, when they're already very short in at least primary schools, and, even more a pity, one less male black professional role model, in a school which, I'm assuming, has many black students. Perhaps I should have been more wordily explicit at the time. But perhaps they will let him stay on, if he and they want and he's available. I'd assumed that his current conviction would more or less automatically rule out his continued employment there, but I don't know now how true that is.

I've just been looking through all the IPCC's press releases on Mark Duggan's shooting. http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/default.aspx I've seen no mention there that Mr Duggan had fired a shot, that the non-police gun had been fired, or that any shots had been fired at the police. I have seen mention of the appointment of a Family Liaison Manager on Friday, the day after his death, and several references to contacts with and support for members of Mr Duggan's family, the provison of contact details, and of contacts with community leaders. There are several acknowledgements of the distress felt by Mr Duggan's family and of community concern. There are also requests for the ending of inflammatory and inaccurate speculations about his death. That of an 'execution' style assassination by shots to the head was on 7 August categorically stated to be untrue. The Monday 8 August release includes: "Following my meeting with the family yesterday (Sunday) I am very clear that their concerns were not about lack of contact or support from the IPCC. Their concerns were about lack of contact from the police in delivering news of his death to Mark?s parents. It is never the responsibility of the IPCC to deliver a message regarding someone's death and I have told Mr Duggan?s family that I would be addressing this issue with the Met and that, if necessary, this would become part of our investigation."

YOUR VIEWS ON FOIE GRAS --- Fourth Glorious Week at the EDF! "This one will run and run."

> BBC reporter at Highbury Magistrates Court, John Brain, tells BBC 5 live: "the first person who appeared in the dock this morning was a > 31-year-old teacher called Alexis Bailey. She pleaded guilty to being part of the looting of the Richer Sounds store in Croydon" - A black male learning mentor at a Stockwell school , according to the Guardian and other papers. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/england-riots-primary-croydon-burglary A pity. He's apparently the only male out of a dozen or more learning mentors and teaching assistants at the school. http://www.stockwell-pri.lambeth.sch.uk/whoswho.asp [Flash needed!]

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not making excuses for anyone - a plague on every participant in the riots - but riots like this weeks don't happen all the time for a bunch > of reasons. And one of those reasons is that a small band of commited people recognise that many kids are broken (for whatever reason) > and try and grub around for funding to keep them busy. If it stops rioting, it's cheap at twice the price, even if it appears to be "soft" I believe there are, or have been, such people in Peckham, with very small organisations, low public profile, probably little money, doing largely unheralded work. These are other than Camilla Batmanghelidjh's Kids Company. I don't remember any details. Does anyone?

What we don't know is from what level within the police such possibly inaccurate snippets of information come from, how authorised or authoritative they were, or what apparatus there is within the police for disciplinary action against unauthorised or unchecked release of information. We do of course know of cases of information informally passing from police officers to journos or investigators. I do remember a senior police officer stating that the police had never stated that Mr Duggan had fired a gun. Did the press get their pseudo-information from a police officer or the IPCC? How exactly did the IPCC arrive at their initial understanding and think it reliable enough to be published by their spokesman? An eventual answer to that question is needed.

Yes, nicely done. Someone has to ask, What if traffic does nevertheless get too much for the server? Do people have any other general local communication channels?

This from an advisory leaflet found after the Tottenham riot, viewable at http://instagr.am/p/Jt9gM/ . "Get rid of ALL clothes you were wearing at the demo, including YOUR SHOES, your bag, and any distinctive jewellery you were wearing.."

> Is this kind of liaison ad hoc or is it formalised. / What's the official line from The Met. I don't know, but I did see a ? former police commander on ? Newsnight saying that the IPCC had a family liaison function in such cases, and criticising them for being a slow-moving organisation. Whatever, the large number of Met PR people don't seem to have been very effective. I wonder if they were consulted, and also why there was such a long interval before the public statement from Mr Duggan's family, that they did not condone the riot.

A ?BBC TV news report from the scene of the shooting made a point of the fact that IPCC investigators were, perhaps unusually, on the scene at the same time as police investigators. They could be seen there, with an IPCC legend on their protective clothing, alongside police investigators. I surmised that the police had possibly wanted to ensure that an independent investigation was being seen to be done.

I got one several years ago, and I've also seen variants posted outside ED station once or twice. I did wonder how much he was spending on postage. But if he's still alive, active and productive, and not causing any harm, I suppose that's good news rather than bad.

Anyone got the journalistic interest to offer a couple of them the cost of ten or fifteen minutes of their time, to get some accounts of the setup and backgrounds?

Just a reminder of the power of unconfirmed rumour in a tense situation. Wikipedia article on Birmingham 2005 race riots

I think it's best to rely on the primary data source. The link that I gave above to my Companies House search result incorporated a time-out, I'm afraid, so was of of little use. Anyone wanting to check their records will need to go to their Webcheck page and enter the search details themselves. A CH search for a dissolved company named Chelsea Gardens returns the one cited by DF, incorporated 1997, dissolved 2002. A CH search for a current company named Chelsea Gardens returns company number 05394906, incorporated 2005 and still live.

> Do you think that might help my creaky knees? Try a foie gras compress. It's good for wrinkles too.

There is a company of that name registered at Companies House: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/ee0202c7008ec4d8e5d9810b2d011004/compdetails

> And the Reds go marching ON ON ON! Are they and we not allowed even a holiday from this relentless mantra?

pedropowers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'll stay on the forums and perhaps post a few more questions about the area if you dont mind me sticking around. No reason at all not to, if you're now living in the area and part of the community, as I think most of us inferred from your opening "I am currently new to the area and am putting together a business plan for opening a tattoo shop." What's your previous business experience, btw?

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Photoshop?! The cheek. Aw man. No wonder. You ain't never gonna swing if you is ashamed of your instrument.

Swing Low!

The Sun Has Got His Hat On - Ambrose and his Orchestra (vocals: Sam Browne)