Ultraconsultancy

Louisa and Marmora - agreed of course no-one should be forced to let out the retail or commercial sites they own, but there are additional factors at work. If you own a retail site [and for the sake of argument lets say its a A1 shop] then you are neither allowed to live in it, nor allow other people to live in it, nor use it innapropriately for business [say as a resaurant]. Keeping it empty, either in the hope it will gain rarity value, or simply as a buffer to your domestic accomodation, is perfectly within your rights. But essentially it is a low-key form of land-banking. And you can't argue that having the retail offer of a particular street is a good thing, surely; it lowers the business opportunity of that community, and it lowers the income of the authorities who collect NNDR to fund the local facilities. So keeping an empty shop is effectively subsidised by local ratepayers, both NNDR and Council Tax. As a retail consultant I'm obviously going to say that there should be both stick and carrot for getting landlords and tenants together in the endeavour of starting new businesses; but I think one very effective way of doing this is to make landlords pay full NNDR on empty sites after say six months, with a right to appeal and hear their argument. This would stop landlords sitting on empty sites, let them for the short to mid term, and make this kind of investment pay its way in the community. Ultraconsultancy

Hi Everybody Could I please pre-empt the lovely Administrator and ask you all to stick to the topic which is about "planning permission for no6 and other sites in Lordship Lane" It is a VERY important and useful thread for lots of us [especially me as a retail consultant] and we don't want to get it lounged for being too bellicose. See you next Friday people? Ducking out intermittently with the French and Irish rugby fans - its all to play for! Have a lovely Friday Ultraconsultancy

My understanding is that this is an urban myth started by getting the cart before the horse. These fences were designed and erected in the 60s and 70s to be used as stretchers in time of emergency, either fire or civil defence. This was a product of the same paranoia that created the much loved Protect and Survive. Metal was scarce in both WW1 and WW2, and stretchers were made of wood and canvas with leather buckles and metal clips. If you look closely at the 'stretchers' you will see that the thechnology in the mesh, the extruded tubes and the welding is much more modern. The need to have a ready supply of stretchers near blocks of flats has IIRC been superceded by developments in the fire service, who now have inflatable slides like those fitted to airliners. Of course I stand to be corrected on all of this; I was having precisely the same conversation with a chum of mine in lovely SE5 just last week, probably the same ones as you, ratty. Ultraconsultancy

I'm sure I read somewhere that Camberwell is the 'reserve' stack for both Heathrow and City; this means that you don't get it continuously enough to get used to it, but only in peak times. In the summer of course these peaks are much more often and longer. it quite noticebly gets louder earlirer in the morning at the beginning of June IIRC. Thanks for the reminder about concorde - i remember looking up at 4.20 or so every day, like the farmers in 'night mail' -oo arh that be the way of science be that. Ultraconsultancy

Maybe they should be...if they play that badly against the Boks they will get some hiding.

I can tell you it's been empty for at least eight years... Ultraconsultancy

Tillie - you can induce a "madeleine moment" by having someone waft a pint of beer shandy and a players no6 under your nose; it'll all come flooding back. This happens to me involuntarily every time i walk past a scottish working men's clubhouse bar. Ultraconsultancy

jogojo - this is rotten. youre vulnerable and stressed and not up to arguing and some nasty sort screws you. aprt from the 'elf and safety' the other favourite is 'nine eleven, mate'. in the clear light of day of course you realise that someone who needs notice to remember his own name is unlikely to know their way around complex statutory leg. the answer - and i'm not smirking - is get it in writing, agree a cash final payment, stand your ground, and think hyacinth bouquet. and have less stuff! Ultraconsultancy

Jeremy the point of complaining is that it does eventually [along with all the other annoying plaintiffs] get things changed. But you should always make sure you're talking to the person who can change it, and not make it personal. All the time I worked in retail I loved sorting out complaints from my customers; a bit of spice in among the mundane stuff.

Hey - I'm the 2000th person to view this thread! Ultraconsultancy MM

welcome to the EDF stella, like alan says it can be quite pugnacious, and some naughty people use annonymity to be a bit more forceful than is polite, but thats all part of the fun.

Freecycle is fantastic. I have given away a pram, and collected some excellent hi-fi. It's not strictly a swap; you can give or you can request. The southwark group is new [groups in london are borough-sized so less transport is involved] but i have been a member of lambeth group for about six months. you can join in two ways; either by receiving email allerts [good for smaller groups like southwark] or by having access to a message board [good for big groups like london] so i get both in those modes. you have to offer something free to start the membership. Highly recommended, and you [usually ] get to meet nice recycling kind of people like you are!

GGS is underappreciated as an architect, and his influence in using brick in the period after victorian gothic was very influential. He did a lot of bread-and-butter work too, Giles Church in Camberwell I'm told, but I'm sceptical. His Grandfather designed the Great eastern Hotel, popularly known as the St Pancras Hotel, currently being restored. UC

Wrong side of bed AP? Have a look [if you can force yourself] at the inside cover of Living South. They have about a dozen 'magazines', all minimal on the editorial and rammed with ads for estate agents awash with cash, and hypnotherapists. I used to joke with Mrs UC that there was a constantly re-run article on 'Victorian graveyards of South London'. Opened the last issue of LS and there it was, a parody of itself. Darwinism clearly not applying in glossy publishing here, then. UC

I shalln't risk incurring the wrath of the hardline administrator by straying from the skyline topic - but it's a skilled man indeed who can open so many cans of worms in so few words Sean. Skyline branding is very interesting in the global cities chart. I have long argued that Glasgow retained its reputation for razor-weilding high rise blocks during the culture city 90's despite it's astonishing victoriana because the victorian stuff doesn't provide a notable skyline. Edinburgh's corporate logo of the same period was just the word Edinburgh with the skyline of the castle and st giles' cathedral above. For the same reasons I thought the London Olympic bid logo was fantastic - a thames shaped olympic riband. Ultraconsultancy

I'll back recommendations for lamoon heartily for their take-out service [which has a very high quality returning customer memory]; no reason to think their sit down service fails. their food seems much more steamed than fried, certainly several dishes i usually dislike for being oily seemed much lighter and cleaner in flavour. Jay rayner thought very highly of Dragon Castle. Apparently it has two menus; one for chinese and one for britons. I see the logic, especially where spices are concerned, but allegedly they aren't keen on brits seeing the 'real' one. Maybe it's cheaper! Despite being the worst place in the 'conflict' universe, Elephant used to have the best trattoria pizzerria in London, the famous Castello's. Now it has a world beating chinese. is that because rents are so low they can afford to splash out on the actual grub while letting you out the door for less than thirty quid? sorry for straying; go to lamoon in denmark hill! Ultraconsultancy

You're not alone Sean, I think it looks just fine; who pays for it all is my concern.

a few years ago two lady friends of mine, who would nowadys be called empty-nesters, fancied opening a shop. they couldn't agree whose busines plan was most likely to succeed; and they couldn't each afford the rent on a wee shop in a the street[which wasn't unlike a rural perthshire ED, but with more millionaires]. they decided to take a shop with two victorian bay windows, put in two rear counters, have a wall each, and split all the costs. as far as i know the "hand made button and chocolate cake shop" is still there and is a regular stop for american bus tours of the highlands, coining it for the two golf widows.

Not sure Andrew - no doubt this would have a lot of H&S regs as well as planning permission and probably rating too. I'm pretty sure that if you have a distribution warehouse with a trade sale room attached, and a public front-of-house retail shop facing the street, then you wouldn't be allowed to let your retail customers free unaccompanied access to the trade sale room or the warehouse. Like I say, it's a bit of a dark art. If you are in the commercial property game, either as freeholder or tenant, then having a brother-in-law who holds his LLB in this wizardry would be fortunate indeed. UC

Piaf is over-rated IMHO ednerd, and overused in such establishments. Charles Trenet every time for me, and Django Reinhardt.

As far as A1 to A5 go, my understanding is that all changes have to be authorised by planning, but that it is far easier to go up the list ie towards a shop, than down the list ie towards a pub. Generally this will reflect what the local community desires, where it decides to flex its democratic muscle. So yes I think A1 to A4 would be tricky, depending on how adamant the local community felt. Planning law though is greatly misunderstood, not least by me i'm sure; planners i suspect, like it that way. UC

I've noticed that there are frequent posts about new businesses in ED that involve issues around planning and commercial use licences. Much of the chatter about Nero's, for example, and recent anticipation about 6 Lordship Lane. Those of you interested in these issues could have a look here to see what the basic classes are. I'm sure it's not an exhaustive list; but I'm a retail consultant rather than a commercial surveyor so it does for me. Ultraconsultant

WQ - I'd have to get some paperwork out ot have a real look, but isn't D1 medical treatment premises? Which would kind of make sense if it was previously used by the health care trust. Aplication for A2 has the distinct smell of estate agent about it, i'm afraid. UC

I like my cassis with champers, when I can afford it, ednerd. This place sounds very attractive - but do they really sell chandeliers?

Is it true about the beans being "partially digested" by rodents [sorry can't remember which one] ?