citizenED

Private enterprise made a great fist of the Railways. I for one, don't mind tax money going to pay the wages of a few railway workers who are probably surplus to requirements. I would rather that than tax money going to those same workers, in the form of social security. I do mind tax money lining the pockets of those wealthy individuals who now own the railways. We ought to stop thinking of everything simply in terms of its economic worth. citizen

I don't think anyone's suggesting that landlords pay council tax on their rented accommodation, simply people with two properties, ie one they live in and a holiday home or a pad in town for their own use, should be taxed at the same, or even higher rate. citizen

saunters in, tucking copy of Guardian deep into jacket pocket to avoid offense eyes clientelle - a few familiar faces but there's a tweed jacket on the coat rack. And several people are smoking - either the libertarians are flouting the laws or simply, there are no laws. At the bar, looks at selection. 78 different beers. Free marketeering gone mad. Gadzooks. Theres a man who seems to know his own mind. Sidles up to MM and asks opinion on what to choose.

Like JoeChuff, I like being nannied by the state. Democratic(sic) decisions made by well-meaning professional people tend to be fairer than decisions made by individuals. EG I am in my car and I want to park - markings on the road tell me where i can and where i can't. If it was left to me I might park in a place that is inconvenient to other people. EG I fancy buliding a big extention to my house. It seems reasonable to me but how do i know it is reasonable to my neighbours? Planning regulations give me the opportunity to find out. EG I am an employer and I think it is reasonable not to employ that disabled person. Someone else will employ them. Actually all the employers think like me so no disabled people get a job. Employment law guides me on what is fair. Marmora Man, you state that you are an individual and do not want the government to make decisions on your behalf. Can I ask whether you afford that same privilege to everyone else? citizen

*Bob*, surely you answered this in your own "cock" quote in another thread. There are mean rich people and mean poor people, generous poor people and generous rich people. citizen

The do lovely cheese on Marmited crumpets at Petitou in Peckham - delicious. citizen

I'm checking the BBC 5-day forecast too - It has been changing daily - but as it stood about 30 mins ago it'll be cloudy with sunny spells and 24C. Fingers crossed. citizen

I've posted from the furthermost reaches of my imagination, and that is pretty distant. citizen

Following on from CWALD "solutions" - Scrap income support and provide a universal benefit for every adult. This should be a minimal "living amount". Everyone gets it no matter whether employed or not. This should ease the poverty trap where it is not worth the poorest people working because what they earn is off-set against benefit giving them no incentive to work. Then, if some people were prepared to live on the minimal benefit, so be it. Most people wouldn't. It might help prevent some people getting involved in the black market too. It would also stop the Authorities having to chase benefit fraudsters. Instead they can go after the real cheats - tax dodgers. citizen

The "being-accused-of-Racism" debate is always such a sensitive one. You can tell by some of the comments on this reasonably well balanced thread that people are overly concerned of such an accusation being levelled at them. Obviously it is a matter of degree but racism can be overt or covert. I always felt that the covert type was what McPherson talked about in the Lawrence enquiry when he said that the police force was institutionally racist. When a white person moves from an area because changes are occuring, it might not simply be that they see a black family move in a few doors down and therefore pack their bags. It might be because one of their friends had passed away, a neighbour moved out (to live nearer their family), the local pub was given a make-over and now had a loud jukebox and gradually there were more folks on the street in the evenings. In time there was less to stay around for. White flight. It is surely unfair to say that everyone who moved was a racist. If it is understandable for immigrant populations to group together then it is almost equally understandable for the "host" communities to do likewise. citizen

*that's the spirit, Brendan (or is it bren gun?)* *All out machismo posturing does wonders for that I don't like Mondays feeling* *slurps an empathetic pint*

*nothing - that's the point* *too busy pondering my follow-up to the Iliad* *Note to self - live in real world, not exclusively in head*

Picked up a flyer in Jacks Cafe in the week - but we had something else planned today. Shame, would have loved to attand. citizen

*Cheers, Sean* *necks drinks swiftly* *line same up for Sean* *so I was in here on my own with Tatiana* *Homer-like thud of head on bar* *Doh!*

..........wind whistles through pot plants.........tumbleweed rolls through...........deadly silence.........that'll be a no then.

Keef, in the spirit of your original post here are my difinitive top 5 novels (sorry, getting up to ten is a task beyond my puny analytical powers...) 1 The Information - Martin Amis 2 The Corrections - Jonathan Franzen 3 The Secret History - Donna Tartt 4 Charlie Big Potatoes - Phil Robinson 5 Being Dead - Jim Crace citizen observations: two are by Americans (the horror!) only one by a woman (bang go my PC credentials) all are by living authors.

I managed to pick up a copy of 'Kevin' in a swap at the EDF drinks in June but my mrs snaffled it from under my nose. I might get to it once i've finished History of Love - I know you recommended it earlier on this thread Capt so I trust it's good - i've enjoyed the initial pages. citizen

Anyone else hooked on the Jamie T album like I am? citizen

My Super Power would be Sweden

In our ED street in the houses immediately around us, it goes like this: Young white family - young mixed race family - black family - white family - white senior lady - mixed race family - white family - mixed race family. I think part of the problem assessing the ethnicity of varying areas is the sort of 'headline' approach. If you sat in a cafe on LL and watch the people go by you do not necssarily get a flavour of the ethnic make-up of ED. LL is not exactly a shopper's haven when you have Rye Lane so close and Lewisham Centre just a short journey away. Both offer loads more. The census will give a better picture. citizen

Yeah, like "Care Assitant Training" that one always bugs me - as if anyone is about to build a promising career on the strength of a ad cellotaped to a railing. I'm with you Sean, it has to some code. citizen

*very much enjoyed the warm post-rant afterburn* *with three venues in these parts now we could do a virtual crawl* *Start in Quiet room, stroll to Rancho with ciggie, have a couple, then stagger, chain-smoking, to Fu-bar for some more bevvies then back to Quiet room.* *anyone up for it later?* *In meantime i'll zip another scotch, thank you*

*Bl**dy PCN's, bl**dy Final Reminders, blasting DOG SH*T on the sidewalk, flaming inconsiderate women breastfeeding in public, screaming smoking bans, piffling computers crashing, damned workmen leaving nails-not-driven-home-properly-on-which-one-has-just-caught-one's-toe.... what a morning. - inserious need of some FU time...* A Laphroig please Sean, and make it a double.

Mockney, I just read your article - (that's the problem with my part-time job on the Forum, as opposed to your full time one, I tend to dip in and out and thus mis-read, half-read or plainly miss stuff.) You are full of rightful indignation re the fact that there were only a few replies/comments. Sadly are we all a bit inured to this stuff through US movies re Vietnam, Cambodia etc. Still, horribly eye-opening. citizen

Thanks for the photo, Louisa - I wonder if, back then, the environs had that distinct aroma of p*ss that it does now. citizen