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I know...back to LTNs - so bored of the 'just like Trump' gaslighting. Have we up to date peak traffic NOx and particulate pollution data for EDG/ Croxted? Grove Vale and LL? Is noise pollution in dB being measured? What are the NOx and PM peak readings at the Charter School ED and Rosendale?

Does anyone disagree..?promote the awareness of the need to adapt zero or low pollution means of transport (electric / hybrid vehicles and cycles) and to use public transport more? how does this then become fraud and an anti-LTN group - that is a leap by the Village Cllrs?

Another take - The actual application seems worth funding - it lists ideas to reduce pollution outside of the LTNs - so why is this being called 'fraudulent'. Surely both Village Councillors would be in favour of the application, did they only change their minds because they realised it wasn't their two mates. This is the problem - waved through due diligence it seems. Of course Southwark have rather a long history of jobs for the boys ..and girls, under all colours of the political rainbow. Private Eye has many a scoop.

From the meeting information. "The application form invited expressions of interest for the applicants to deliver projects themselves. A due diligence exercise to ensure that this is both practical and realistic has been undertaken as part of the feasibility process. RECOMMENDATION 1. That the South Multi-Ward Forum allocates a total of ?146,120 of the Neighbourhoods Fund 2022-23 to the list of applications outlined in Appendix 1, subject to this funding being approved in the 2022-23 budget." Well - If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck...

Nah... before it gets to that stage, where there is a summary etc., surely they must have been scrutinised and *should* go through due diligence, otherwise they would have to discuss every application. As I say - I'm confused as it seemed to be on an approved for recommendation list? as I say...very confused..but yes back to topic... Any thoughts on EDG being a 'traffic hellhole' from LTN lobbyist and general poster-boy for how great LTNs are for us hellhole residents?

The whole thing is very confusing, but I also cannot understand how it gets to the 'recommended' stage without due diligence, unless waved through because it was thought to be Southwark's very own LTN fan-base the CAD. So slarti b's take on it sounds very feasible. When they realised it was put in by a man....so couldn't be southwark's CAD mates, the recommendation was cancelled? Meanwhile Peter Walker, owner of his very own LTN at the bequest of his mates on Southwark Council has this charming comment on Twitter. "DV roads were wide, but packed with through-traffic, so was never fun to ride down pre-LTN. And I'm not a complete local, but from memory, EDG has *always* felt like a traffic hellhole...." Charmingly like by Cllr. Leeming. https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1501678815600431104?s=20&t=VHltiuxII1j29wIrRoRJgw

'A fact' Personally I like to check the actual data before blindly believing any 'fact' from an organisation desperately trying to 'prove' their policy is working. We are sometimes told 'facts' by the organisation that has implemented a policy, that turn out to be either less true or more nuanced. "The monitoring data for East Dulwich Grove Central (near Tessa Jowell Health Centre), saw a 20% decrease in traffic between Sept 19 and Sept 21. The main entrance to ED Charter is in Melbourne Grove; This is simply a fact. Your call to remove the restrictions on through traffic would increase traffic around the school." If Southwark say's this monitor was only added in Sept 2021 and it's official data point only records a measure in Sept 2021 - how does one measure a 20% decrease? Why is congestion and pollution not measured on ED Grove at peak time for children walking to Charter, Alleyn's and JAGs? This peak pollution is important as this is when children are walking past idling traffic. Make Melbourne Grove at the entrance and Elsie school streets with timed closures from 8:00 -9:00 and open Melbourne on the other side, Derwent, Calton and Court as not school roads.

Let's see..... I hope sense and propriety prevails.

Still it must be a comfort that Southwark is giving LTN lobby groups (- i.e - a couple of people on a closed road) - money in their new round of grants to gaslight us residents on polluted boundary roads.

Thanks Legal - very interesting, I see the facilitators emphasised and encouraged "Critical thinking and digging deeper", something certain posters on this forum like to label "trying to discredit renown academics". Some great recommendations I thought: Affordable, accessible and appealing public transport should be the backbone of a low carbon Southwark. To achieve this there needs to a) Increased number of electric buses i) Improving public transport access parts of the borough which have low Public Transport Accessibility Levels (PTAL) and large numbers of residents Demolition as a last resort: Demolition impacts neighbourhoods and communities. We are concerned that demolition and rebuild may have a negative effect on climate change impact compared to refurbishing existing buildings. Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) should only be implemented if extensive engagement with broader potentially impacted areas as well as the specific area is carried out thoroughly and shows support Southwark should work with residents to increase canopy cover in the borough to achieve at least 35% cover within a specified timeframe and use this opportunity to engage residents in local community projects that enhance and upgrade green spaces across Southwark. Mature trees should be protected, and only considered for removal when damaged or ill. /The council should use planning policy and other measures to encourage better use of brown sites, protect existing green spaces and enhance and expand green spaces, by, for example, converting parking spaces into mini parks and rewilding brownfield and other relevant sites. So Southwark hasn't done any of the above - in fact demolition rather than refurbish has been the Southwark way at the cost of residents and the environment (Heygate, Ayelsbury, Elephant) LTNs have be implemented with no engagement at the cost of impacted high density residential roads And Southwark have constantly rejected and ignored suggestions of local clean, green buses and/or trams. Mature trees and green spaces have been destroyed by infilling I like this citizens jury, can they be our Southwark Council leaders please!

A brilliant piece of research by the Imperial group https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/environmental-research-group/Health-Impact-Assessment-of-current-and-past-Air-Pollution-on-asthma-in-London.pdf

What is a 'renown' academic? Within academia it is normal to question each others work and critically analyse research. Most academics would think that researching to see if your own research and policy is fit for purpose, with a large ?1.5 million grant, is possibly a little unusual. Doesn't it make sense that this should be directed by someone with a neutral POV. And - wouldn't we all want to know the NOx and PM levels near our schools at peak CYP active travel - so I'm asking - what is it? Are Southwark monitoring this?

Researcher, research's their own policy with a ?1.5 million grant, as they forgot about impacts on disabled people. Like marking your own flawed homework and getting a nice cash prize for getting it wrong in the first instance. Meanwhile the NOx levels outside of East Dulwich Schools apparently remains at illegally high levels, with some levels higher than April 2021 - can someone give us the data, I have only seen it on Twitter. One year on from the release of the Pave The Way report, Transport for All joins a research team led by Professor Rachel Aldred, Professor of Transport at the University of Westminster, that has been awarded over ?1.5 million to fund a study into Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTNs) in London. "One year on from our 'Pave The Way' report, which found that disabled people hold both positive and negative opinions on LTNs but feel their views have often been ignored, we are delighted to be part of this extensive new research project" Caroline Stickland, Chief Operating Officer at Transport for All

"I think this has been evidenced by the traffic measuring the council has done." which is?

Thank you, that is very helpful. DC might be a goer.

Ha Ha just seen the Dale disappearing act as Cllr Burgess asked about the 85% of boundary roads that suffer increased congestion after LTNs are implemented and him rushing out because he didn't have the data. I know why, because I have looked at the raw data and there are no pollution or congestion monitors on many of the main boundary roads, just a few ATCs and some of them (the one near my house for instance) haven't had a recording taken since 2018.

Well you see, I would say Miles was the original punk....so what!

There was no counter before Sept 2021 at this point. Southwark explicitly said this was a new count, there is no registered counter on the official geo Southwark website before Sept 2021 and Google Street View shows no counter before Sept 2021.

To be honest, I'm not sure you understand and I can't help you with that. It's the raw data in excel that is generated by the counter and not a 'tick sheet' - I have given you the official site of all the counters that Southwark uses, which Southwark directs anyone interested in the dataset to. You keep saying that 'the 2019 count is an actual count - not extrapolated, not made up' and 'For the record, this isn't correct - the 2019 monitoring outside the hospital site was real.' And when the raw dataset is presented and the fact that there was no counter there before Sept 2021 is explicit - you don't want to believe. So be it.

How can you have a date for when the counters were there, if the counters weren't there? :)Priceless.

Yep London ES reported 'The fuel crisis has been blamed for bringing car use down to its lowest level since May. Department for Transport figures show car traffic in Britain on Tuesday last week was at 86% of pre-pandemic levels. It has not been that low since mid-May. Traffic for all motor vehicles was close to 100% before the shortage at filling stations, but was closer to 90% between Tuesday and Thursday last week. On Monday of this week, the most recent day covered by the statistics, car traffic was at 91%, down from 97% a fortnight earlier."

I tell my students off for being lazy researchers...then I come on here...

Ok it is hard to take a screenshot of the data, I think Southwark, just make it hard on purpose, but this is the total number of counts from this point - Southwark give no other pre-2021 data for this 'stretch' of road

goldilocks just go and look at the data point - on the site that Southwark Council directs us to. I'm not sure I can be anymore specific for you. Just go and look. 4 counts in Sept 2021 and that is it. Don't rubbish what I am telling you is there until you look at it yourself. It really is only 4 measurement on 4 days in Sept 2021, I know this doesn't fit into what you want to be the truth, but go and look at the actual raw data counts. This is exhausting...

It is at a price and only available at inconvenient times - they should give back a lot more. Alleyn's keeps theirs clean from the plebeian hordes, including their own cleaning staff who are not quite good enough to be offered free swimming.