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I could quote a whole lot of words from Southwark, about what they are going to do, which just end up as empty rhetoric. So at the moment it would be nice, for the simple act of updating the dashboard. The ATCs are still I in place and I would assume collecting data - so can they please just publish the data and make it accessible to residents in East Dulwich.

Thanks Ex, interesting information. I think ideally I would like Southwark to concentrate on publishing activity that leads to poorer health outcomes. 1. Peak levels of NO2 and PM 2.5 during rush/school run "Exposure to PM2.5 can cause illnesses like asthma, COPD, coronary heart disease, stroke, and lung cancer. There is also evidence that links PM2.5 to low birth weight, diabetes and diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson's" - "the current UK limit is four times more than the updated level recommended by the WHO" Taskforce for Lung Health 2. Congested (idling) traffic on each road and timing "Traffic congestion increases vehicle emissions and degrades ambient air quality, and recent studies have shown excess morbidity and mortality for drivers, commuters and individuals living near major roadways" Zhang K, Batterman S. Air pollution and health risks due to vehicle traffic. Sci Total Environ. 2013 Apr 15;450-451:307-16. doi: 10.1016/j.scitotenv.2013.01.074. PMID: 23500830; PMCID: PMC4243514. 3. The percentage of individuals diagnosed with asthma on roads that have the highest levels of congestion and PM2.5 and NO2 within Dulwich/East Dulwich compared to the roads with the lowest levels of PM2.5 and NO2 during peak rush hour/school run. The Taskforce for Lung Health also stated - "The quality of air pollution monitoring varies by area, and there is a lack of accessible information for people to view air pollution in their local area. The public accounts committee reported in October 2022 that it is ‘too difficult for the public to find information about the air quality in their local area’. Everyone deserves to know if the air in their local area is safe to breathe. We need to make sure we all have information to help protect our heath. The government must act to ensure that people are aware of the pollution where they live and the risk they are at." I think that East Dulwich residents have a right to accessible and accurate information.

It's a thread about the Dulwich Streetspace Data Dashboard and about traffic and pollution in East Dulwich right now - specifically asking for the dashboard to be updated and asking about how these are measured. It's not about LTNs despite the OP labelling it as such.

I would like the dashboards updated and pollution levels measured on East Dulwich Grove as promised by Southwark Council, I think it's my right as a resident to have detail of congestion and pollution on my road. I do not believe that Pneumatic ATCs are accurate during congested traffic due to my own independent research of MetroCount 5000, but even so, even the flawed data is something. "In 2022, London’s rush hour was the slowest moving in the world, according to the latest Traffic Index. The average speed of motor vehicles in the city centrr during peak hours was just 14 kph (around 9 mph)".(Matthew Beedham Editor of Shift15.02.23) "Vehicle speed measurement equipment performs poorly when measuring low speeds of around 10km/h" (Bouygues Energies & Services introduces Energy Vision, an innovative solution designed to help manufacturers manage energy and decarbonise their business). ATC pneumatic counters are recommended to be used in 'are only designed for free flowing traffic" and "vehicles travelling very slowly might not be classified correctly" "either not included in count" or "placed in an unknown vehicle class" " Some councils have chosen to exclude all traffic travelling under 10Km/hr as in Enfield - a deliberate choice to change the default setting"- MetroCount - manufacturers of ATCs used by London Councils. Enfield manual count compared to ATC count on boundary road in Enfield during period of congested traffic - 57% of traffic missed.

Blue and yellow butterflies in the garden 🙂

I would like to know the amount of traffic on East Dulwich Grove, even if Jenjenjen does not. It's not an LTN thread it's a what is the traffic on my road measured by a Pneumatic Traffic Counter that cannot register any vehicle travelling less than 20km/per/hr thread.

Went in happy to be impressed.... came out with nothing. Partner excited about their preferred shampoo, until they realised buying in bulk as we do...it was cheaper. Some very cheap IT hardwear connectors, would be interested in how long they last. Ended up going to Bora veg shop and bought some very good resonantly priced (compared to some outlets) quality veg. I’m sure i I will use it, but don’t eat sweets, biscuits or hot pastries... so I’ll see. It was busy though.

The queues of traffic and pollution every morning caused by the LTNs remains. When it goes back to pre-LTN levels and there is not a queue of traffic idling all the way from LL to Village Way, then I'll stop discussing it on this thread. I'll even stop discussing it if Southwark actually measure the particulate pollution and NOx levels at 8:30am on a school day and publishes the data, or start measuring 'congestion' rather than ATC traffic counts from ATC's that do not register idling traffic. So yes, I'm sure it is an annoying and very long discussion for anyone who is not harmed by this polluting traffic or doesn't care if anyone else is.

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‘The Times approached eight inner London councils that introduced LTNs during the pandemic to ask what settings they had used on their counters, whether they had been adjusted after their schemes were implemented and whether they were confident in the accuracy of their data, but none of them answered. Almost all of the councils have presented their LTNs as a success, claiming traffic reductions even on some boundary roads‘ In one case undercounting by around 1500 cars in a 12 hr period on a boundary rd.

Every time I say the traffic has increased on East Dulwich Grove, I’m pointed to the ATC counts on ED Grove Central .... which is often congested with slow, idling traffic - that the traffic has reduced. Although strangely increased by 25% at the other end. I know this is incorrect as I see, smell and hear it. So why do the ATCs that Southwark have used not count the traffic I see? Even more chilling is that the manufacturers of the ATCs now admit that Councils have ACTIVELY removed slow moving traffic data. So undercounting and removal of data. In the Times today, sadly a paywall, but I’m sure someone can take a screenshot. This is the data that was used to ‘prove’ that LTNs do not increase traffic on major resedential roads outside of LTNs.

The 'Active Travel Academy' at Westminster University is funded by grants from organisations promoting LTNs, cycling, cargo-bikes and 'active travel' - the Academy is headed up by Prof. Aldred. Maybe we should ask the Vegan Society to investigate if a vegan diet is healthy and the Meat Marketing Board if a diet that includes meat is healthy? Maybe Boris Johnson should investigate Party-gate and write the report?

Calling people 'daft' and 'thick' is rather rude. Do better.

Frying bacon emits 2.35 (2.22 ) μg/min of PM2.5.

Yes my partner saw jays on Greendale.. I love them, exotic looking and very bright ..as are all corvids.

That piece of research would be expensive and longitudinal .... it will not happen as anyone with meat in the game has no interest in ‘proving’ LTNs do not reduce pollution as over a Null hypothesis.

‘Scientists’ ie me…. Are taught to question any research and any outcomes. In fact the standard of quantitative research is the null hypothesis. Trying to prove that a theory is incorrect. Mal confuses questioning and understanding bias, with FB and Twitter types. I’ve looked at the data about PMs and I believe the data and see no evidence of bias… but I have peer reviewed and asked for rewrites or review of data as bias or poor statistics have been evident. ‘Scientists’ are people.. and are as likely to be biased by society, belief and upbringing as anyone. Hopefully good academic integrity and supervision when learning how to research - as well as reflective practice remove or contain some of this bias.

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Nope ..not at all. Just because someone has a doctorate or have been awarded a professorship doesn't mean they are without bias or in many cases not as bright as you may think. Yes - expertise is great - but one must question and review. For many years 'experts' told us smoking was good for us, women were less intelligent than men and eggs were the cause of heart disease. Experts are influenced by society, bias and political regimes as much as anyone. The issue now is the echo chamber - so having one's opinion echoed and reinforced by a focused group - rather than independent search for the most likely and most evidenced 'truth'. At undergraduate level we teach our future professionals to evidence statements and explore ambiguities and differing opinions. A list of people with titles is meaningless.

And that is not a right wing 'don't trust the scientists' but do research yourself... everyone has a bias. The only research I really have absolute (or near absolute faith in) - is double-blind, randomised, multi-centre, proof-of-principle, independent , primary medical research - expensive and rare. The LTN research is dismal compared to this 'gold-standard'.

Oh I know lots of very thick 'Drs' and 'Profs'... so don't be fooled by a Phd or a title.

Well - anyway. I personally like a wood-burning stove, if I had access to some money I probably would have had one, but knowing what I know now..... I wouldn't, purely from a thinking about others POV. So - the particulates are huge, so we probably should not have them in London. They do produce toxins and particulates that cause cancer, heart disease and respiratory disease. Science by committee is not great. Meantime we allow burning of garden rubbish, BBQs and idling traffic. We eat bacon, play rugby, drink alcohol and use micro-plastics. I think honesty is the key, maybe we do stuff that we know may cause harm, but we do it anyway. Having all our actions monitored maybe too much of an imposition on our lives. LTNs are still cr*p though. :)

Exactly..the data set is flawed. I know that Rah x 3 would like think otherwise, but with some in-depth research of primary data and collection methods - they might see that if you count 500 rather than 1000 on an hourly basis during idling traffic at 'rush -hour' this may be flawed data in this instance. It would be similar to researching a drug that 'cures' heart disease but only being able to measure an improvement in 20 -50- year-old-men, so ignoring all women and men over 50 and claiming success as over the whole population an improvement .... but maybe ignoring that actually all women and all men over 50 die at least two years earlier...or have no improvement and continue to suffer. That is why Ella's Mum calls LTNs - lung apartheid - her words not mine. If you do not want to engage with why she believes this is her truth....then look at yourself.

Yes interesting, since the LTNs there have been three serious accidents on East Dulwich Grove, so in the space of three years...in the preceding 30 years only one. As I do not deal in flawed statistics as some might, to ‘prove’ a belief it may be a correlation rather than causation. Also an earlier poster used a tactic beloved of the right-wing of the LP - smear those you disagree with rather than argue your point and listen to the evidence from the opposing view. I can certainly say that the people I know are fully-vaxed, environmentally conscious and left- leaning individuals. Silly smearing campaigns from either side of the discussion don’t elevate any discussion or solution. Ella’s Mum and the London Mayor disagree fundamentally on LTNs and the Silvertown tunnel but you do not see either of them smearing or insulting each other on MSM or SM, while they both strive to reduce air pollution via their belief about was is best.

Where is the up to date data? Currently not published. I’m not sure this broadly successful holds. What is the particulate measure on boundary roads at peak travel time, what are the actual traffic numbers, now we are all aware that pneumatic traffic counters are inaccurate for idling traffic, as outlined by the manufacturers. What has Southwark put in place for boundary roads - remember all the promises before the local election?