heartblock

First mate..I told you "quantum traffic count" can be both increased and decreased, and in two places at once. But yes - can someone really explain to us...please?

'I have no idea what you think and I really wouldn?t like to see inside your brain, or anyone else?s, to discover what they?re thinking. I only have your choice of words which have created an impression.' Well I suppose one could listen to Rahx3 when they say impressions and perception do not matter - only facts, I don't actually agree with them by the way. Well in the spirit of neighbourly love, I apologise if I have given you an impression to make you think I hate, dislike or think anyone in this thread is an enemy, despite me having a differing opinion to them. i have told you what I am thinking, I don't consider anybody to be my enemy or foe, in fact I believe that ignorance of oneself is the only enemy, and the uncontrolled emotions that arise from that ignorance.

the trouble is it isn't a case of 'However it has to be forced - people have to see that walking or scooting for 5 mins to school is better than sitting in a car for 10 mins and it takes time for that to penetrate' Local active travel is incredibly high already in Ed DV. Because they do walk and cycle to school if living close by - Charter school kids almost all by PT - it's the wide catchment area of certain schools and I'm afraid to say certain demographic of parents - large BMW, Volvo, Mercs bring the precious ones to Alleyn's and JAGs. I pass them parked on Half moon Lane - park car, get precious one out with scooter and do the last 4 mins by 'active travel' or the pavement parkers on EDG with the engine running for the air-con in Summer and the heater in Winter.... Charter School kids know what a bus is...

Exdulwicher Road pricing seems a great idea, until one starts to think about inequality, so like ULEZ the rich will be able to drive and the less well off will not, so there is an inequality issue. I suppose if tied up with really excellent public transport. Ideally public transport entirely paid through taxation so free at the point of use, then the very wealthy would pay more tax for a free at the point of use service? Everyone will jump on that bus! I wouldn't have any private schools - that would immediately get rid of that one, so all children go to excellent local, publicly funded schools, in the meantime take charitable status away unless 80% of children come by PT, coach or active travel. And stop digging up fossil fuels.. But then I'm a very green, very lefty, lefty.

So Jenjenjen - 1. I do not think you or any pro-LTN activist is my enemy, but you tell me that is what I think. Do you not consider that to be trying to get me to question my own reality? 2. I would not use the word 'Victory' as in the post from pro-LTN Duncan in the post above at 11;12am as I do not think their are any enemies ('Even if the forum continues, which I hope it does, there must come a point when this dialogue across its many threads becomes redundant. You would think that point would have been the overwhelming victory of the pro-LTN councillors in the election last week.. but maybe we need to allow a bit of time for the reality to settle in') 3. Are you going to help other neighbours on the non-LTN roads to pressure Southwark to monitor peak pollution, be guided by the recent WHO clean-air quality guidelines and come up with solutions to reduce congestion and pollution on these residential roads 4. I am interested in your views about LTNs, opposing or otherwise about air quality and monitoring of pollution, in fact anything to do with LTNs in East Dulwich, but posts about what you think I think isn't quite the same..is it Many thanks back.

No the language I use is not describing anyone as my enemy, but that is what you are telling everyone and me. In fact when I say I don't think you are my enemy, you come back telling me that is what I think. It is classic gaslighting and again -well done for such an excellent example. Maybe if there had been a referendum and the LTNs were proved to be unpopular by the majority and I had claimed 'victory' over my pro-LTN neighbours - I think you would have a very strong justification to say that I thought my pro-LTN neighbours were my 'enemy'. I think that the pro-LTN policy that the Dulwich and ED LTNs reduce traffic and pollution remains unproven and that on my road and Croxted it has in fact contributed to increased congestion and pollution at peak hours, that has increased from pre-LTN times. I would like congestion and peak pollution levels NOx, PM 2 and PM 10 measured in Charter School sports ground, Tessa Jowell grounds and along EDG. I don't think my neighbours are my enemy, I would just like them to help other neighbours on the non-LTN roads to pressure Southwark to monitor peak pollution, be guided by the recent WHO clean-air quality guidelines and come up with solutions to reduce congestion and pollution on these residential roads - how about it Jenjenjen?

First mate - having asked my academic colleagues in quantum theory - this case of 21000 less cars while car volumes have increased in Dulwich/ED is a case of Schr?dinger cat state paradox, so a "quantum traffic count" can be both increased and decreased, and in two places at once.

Actually Jenjenjen, I don't see them as my enemy, but I do think some posters do live in an LTN, but not all. You see by putting your words in my mouth you are manipulating what I say to get me to question my own reality, memory and perception. Thank you for giving both myself and Waseley an almost textbook example of gaslighting.

Mmmh I don't drive any children to school, because I don't have any .. and yes school buses and car sharing, but as the majority live outside of ED and don't give a s**t about residents on EDG they drive. Opposing view - great, love talking to people with different views and have changed my mind about many subjects in my 50+ years on this planet. ?gaslighting? to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions. So I say my road is now more congested than before the 5xLTNs in my 35 years of living on the same road and you say........ your reality, perception and memory is false. I think the cap fits.

The trouble with the raised crossing is the number of skip lorries going down EDG - they travel quite quickly outside of rush hour and make a sound like an exploding bomb...don't wish anymore misery on us please! They also do not work - the fatal accident involved a raised area...so no, it certainly does not improve safety. The markings on the road (with the exception of the post accident ramp warning signs) have not been re-painted for at least five years..... the road has not been resurfaced for over 30 years...it is pot-holed and cracked along the length.

The honesty at last was for your comment, it was not relating to any other comment you have made in the past (it relates to me asking for some 'truth' from people who have gaslighted me - that does not include you). So apologies if that is what you thought. The local elections were not a referendum on LTNs - many people voted Labour as a signal to Johnson about their disgust of Tory policy, many of my neighbours who hate the LTN traffic on EDG voted Labour, despite being very much affected by the additional congestion and pollution. Crowing over 'victory' in terms of pro-LTN neighbours are winners is as I say offensive in my eyes - you have a right to offend and I am allowed to be offended. I think that considering those adversely affected by LTNs might, just might be a far better take on the situation. Something like - yes the LTNs are here to stay, now what can we do to help people living on EDG, Croxted and LL... rather than 'Victory!' meaning the overcoming of an enemy or antagonist .... which my friends who are nurses, teachers, care-workers, cleaners and retired are not.

I agree Angelina, that's why I walk and take public transport for all my local and London journeys. Unfortunately having schools that have a catchment area outside of Southwark let alone Dulwich and a very poor PTAL in the same catchment means that parents drive very large cars and park illegally on EDG, in bus lanes, on double yellow lines and on pavements - when driving one child to Alleyn's, JAGs and although Judith Kerr is a smaller catchment, the number of parents who drive their one child is hugely impactful for both Half Moon Lane and local traffic - and this is the issue - active travel in ED and DV was always high, the traffic issues are car users outside of the borough and some parents inside the area. LTNs have not made any difference to these people, apart from some of the car driving parents returning to a leafy house outside of this area.... and probably campaigning to keep their LTN on their gated road. So much hypocrisy in this discussion.

I called you honest, but if that offends... "the overwhelming victory of the pro-LTN councillors" and yes this does read as an unpleasant take in my eyes, considering the pain caused and I'm happy to be honest and say that. No one has been victorious in this poor, poor and sadly handled process.

In the morning when there is a queue of traffic on the LL to DV direction the road painted signs are very important as is clear Zebra beacons, as pedestrians and cyclists often use this Zebra and the traffic queue sometimes gets agitated at the wait and/or doesn?t see the Zebra.

There was a fatality...last year, my neighbours and both of us are still upset about it. We did ask for actions.

?Victory? ...how nice, as we will get used to more pollution and more congestion...Victory over an enemy...who are just normal residents trying to live their lives as best they can... ?victory? so the nurses, retired, teachers and care workers who have come on this thread to express their dismay at the dirty air they have to breath. Victory... how lovely indeed, not working with, consulting, brining a community together... but Victory of one neighbour against another. This is again some more honesty at last...this is the mindset...

Love that site ..second only to the lightning strike site!

It?s not quite up to pre-pandemic, this is mild compared to two years ago....

?the masses get used to things eventually?. I have seen this on Twitter a few times, basically saying that LTNs are great for those inside them and people on boundary roads will eventually get used to more pollution and traffic.. but at least this is the first honest pro-LTN response.

Wouldn't it be lovely if they just said 'I live on a closed road, my house is now worth more and when I open my windows in the morning I no longer see, hear or smell cars, you live on a road with more congestion, so I can enjoy my gated road... and do you know what..I don't care, because my life is now much better. I'll never admit my selfishness, I'll never admit LTNs only worked for those inside them, because I really don't want my road to be opened. In order to do this I will gaslight anyone who disagrees with LTNs - I will never read their alternative ways of reducing traffic overall, I will not engage with any published data or articles about WHO levels of pollution, poverty and inequality, the health of people living on ribbon roads and boundary roads because in reality.... I don't care one iota about anybody else but me..me..me..me'

It's 'the Lane' for me...but I'm still dreaming about Arabica.........mmmhhhhhh.

Well Rockets is only quoting the latest from Southwark Council https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/improving-our-streets/live-projects/streetspace/traffic-data-analysis So would also love to know... is it - 'traffic is above pre-Covid levels' in the Dulwich area or is it 21,000 less vehicles? Which is it? And I wonder if we will ever see pollution measurements at peak times at Charter School and the Health Centre?

There is one sitting in a garden in Village Way/Half moon every morning when I walk to HH... I like to see them, but wouldn't want one in my kitchen!

Brilliant!

"Traffic has been rising across Southwark since the end of the 2021 COVID-19 lockdown, and was at 92% of pre-COVID levels in November 2021 at count points in the north of the borough, and above pre-COVID levels on the TfL network near Dulwich" - Southwark Council Dashboard. LTNs do not reduce driving, but they do create lovely quiet car storage on closed roads.