Parking around East Dulwich station

[Fitzgeraldo]

Parking in Ondine, Oglander and thereabouts is now almost impossible due to commuters driving in from elsewhere and then parking for the day. The problem is further exacerbated by the presence of commercial vehicles and enormous 'Chelsea tractors' and the like. Several years ago a plan for parking permits was rejected by local residents. Perhaps this proposal could be revisited.

[stephent]

The CPZ around North Dulwich station was put in place a week ago, so not sure if this has pushed any commuters over to ED?

[traveler2]

I would certainly support this. It works well in Herne Hill.

[worldwiser]

It works well in every other part of zone 2 across the entire city. The council should just do it.

[kford]

The thing is, it doesn't work well. Having lived in two CPZs, I can tell you you will be no better off, except you'll have to shell out ?100 a year for the privilege.

And you'll have to keep a book of day tickets (which expire after three years), for friends and family and tradesmen who pop by, even for just 10 minutes.

And you'll find yourself getting fined ?120 when you forget to re-apply for your permit, or, in our case, when it fell off the windscreen on a sunny day.

And you'll find other drivers from the area will STILL park in your street, as the CPZ will cover a large area, for example the whole of SE22.

Be careful what you wish for.

[mikeb]

Just to add to Kford's note, in my experience CPZs are accompanied by more road marking which reduces the number of parking spaces available overall. CPZs are only effective in increasing parking for locals if the number of spaces lost is outweighed by the reduction in the number of non-locals parking in controlled hours. I seem to remember that the survey a few years ago did not demonstrate this.

Edit: I understand that Southwark is trying to reduce the number of parking spaces by increased road marking anyway, which would remove one of the arguments against CPZ.

[Jeremy]

I live in a CPZ now, and much prefer it.

[rendelharris]

Well, we live one road over and the street parking is surprisingly quiet - never once had to park more than ten yards from our gate in the four months since we moved here. I'd suggest problems in Oglander and Ondine may be to do with their position leading into the Peckham Rye CPZ? Sorry if it's selfish but we don't want to pay Southwark ?125 to ease our parking problems when we don't actually have any! I see Southwark's extant CPZs are massive - for example one stretches from Elephant to Burgess Park - and so any introduction would clearly cover areas which don't have a problem as well as those that do. Obviously this is inevitable as a street by street imposition would just mean everyone migrating to surrounding streets. Still, really not keen to pay more than a ton a year to solve a problem which, for us, doesn't exist.

If a CPZ were to be introduced I don't see why a 5 metre 4x4 should pay the same as our 2.5 metre Smart, but I expect that's just the green eyed monster - that's what 4x4 owners always accuse one of, anyway!

[worldwiser]

We used to live in another part of zone 2 where permits for most sensible cars built in the last 5 years cost less than a pound a week. And the zone only needs to be operational for a half hour in the middle of the day and be insanely well policed.

[rendelharris]

Edit - sorry just realised you said another part of Zone 2, not another part of Southwark!

Well as far as I can see now (http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200220/on-street_parking_permits/477/resident_parking_permits) only hybrids and electric cars get a discount (to ?31.25) - all other vehicles appear to be ?125p.a. Be interested to hear if there are variations.

[????]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I live in a CPZ now, and much prefer it.

I used to live in a CPZ in Camberwell and much prefer not having to live in one since I moved here.

[Jeremy]

??, my point is that it's not all bad - it very much depends on the road. I'm happy to live with the drawbacks and the small-ish fee to park right outside my house. But if I was paying for a permit, and it was STILL hard to find a space, I'd probably be less than ecstatic. Also, some parts of SE22 don't really have a parking problem, therefore a CPZ is unnecessary.

[Johnjohn]

Now that North Dulwich has had a CPZ implemented, is it fair to say that East Dulwich is unique in not having a CPZ? (if not in Zone 2, then certainly in the area)

Parking seems to be a problem for any street in and around East Dulwich Station and any street which has specific local demands which are higher than the capacity of the street.

I live on Tyrrell Road and would support a CPZ 100%.... many of the residents I know would too.

However, I would say that much of East Dulwich does not have a major parking problem.

The soon to be implemented borough wide junction protection programme which extends double yellow lines to ALL junctions for 7.5m in the whole of Southwark will certainly reduce capacity and increase demand for parking, it may well increase demand for a CPZ.

I still find it odd that someone would drive to ED Station to park and catch a train from there. How far away do you have to live to justify driving where a bus or another station wouldn't be a better option?

Do people really drive to catch a train from Zone 2 rather than Zone 3 to save money on train fair?

[Jeremy]

Johnjohn Wrote:

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> I still find it odd that someone would drive to ED

> Station to park and catch a train from there.

The south/east of SE22 is a bit of a public transport black spot... I suspect quite a few people from round there drive to the station, rather than walk for 20+ mins or using the bus.

[Siduhe]

We live in the very south-most bit of SE22 and I have to say I'm not aware of any of my immediate neighbours driving to the station - we tend to walk or catch the bus. Generally our area doesn't have a problem with parking although I think there's a lot more cars than there used to be 5 years ago - especially where a couple of small (10 flat) developments have gone in recently - definitely a lot more cars parking on street around those. The problem with small developments without parking provision (which is what we tend to have round here) is that they can put a lot more pressure on street parking in particular areas.

When the last CPZ review was done back in 2012, I'm pretty sure that I remember the survey on parking identified that a number of the people who were classed as "commuters" weren't hopping on the train at ED but were working nearby in local businesses in and around Lordship Lane. I may be totally misremembering this, but it would make sense given the number of businesses in and around the area. As others have said, I'm not at all sure that putting a CPZ in place would make it easier for people to park outside their home and certainly for me it would be a hassle as there's no need for it in our area, but I also agree it's likely to come back on the agenda when Southwark push through their yellow line policy as they seem determined to do.

[Penguin68]

but were working nearby in local businesses and indeed schools etc. The point was made that these people were coming into the area from outside to benefit the area by teaching our children, serving us in shops and restaurants, mending our houses etc.

Southwark wants to increase parking pressures because these will tend to precipitate calls for CPZs and CPZ revenues and fines offer them revenue sources which cannot be impacted by government fiat on local taxation. They also don't like cars or car owners. They use the concept of wedge, so as soon as a CPZ is installed it brings pressure on zones outside it to call for their own CPZ etc. It is interesting how, in many London areas, CPZ charges begin to escalate over time (well out of line with inflation) as they are used to boost council coffers.

Calling for a CPZ is like helping the council to stuff their hands in your pockets. I can think of no instance (happy to stand corrected) where a CPZ decision (i.e. to have one) has ever later been reversed.

In areas where public transport links are poor (i.e. east/ west traffic around here) the imposition of CPZs has a tendency to isolate areas. The 'just hit the selfish out of area commuter' half an hour in the middle of the day CPZ idea is hardly ever actually used - even though it is often the 'reason' why locals are encouraged to vote for a CPZ. Instead the CPZ hours tend to be extended - I have seen 8:00am to 8:00pm Monday to Saturday (and worse) emerge in some areas of London - I even remember (I hope it's a false memory) a 9:00 or 10:00pm cut-off.

Once a CPZ is there councils have a tendency to extend to extend its reach, scope and cost. And once it has been agreed at all, they feel far less need to consult or take notice of peoples views (in so far as they do at all).

[Jennys]

If a CPZ is introduced won't people with large enough front gardens apply for dropped curbs and then turn their garden into their car park making the area less attractive, less likely to attract bees and wildlife as there would be less plants and also less room for rainwater to drain away.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Parking is not a problem on roads much closer to the station than Ondine or Oglander (eg. Quorn Road). I therefore, seriously doubt that commuters are the problem on those streets.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I generally don't buy the idea that there are large numbers of people driving to ED station. If there are any, they're likely to be those from other parts of ED (who would presumably have a permit, in a CPZ scenario anyway). It's much quicker for people out of town to get a train in from further out.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> but were working nearby in local businesses and

> indeed schools etc. The point was made that these

> people were coming into the area from outside to

> benefit the area by teaching our children, serving

> us in shops and restaurants, mending our houses

> etc.

yeh, the whole idea that only residents have the 'right' to park in a particular area is ridiculous. what's the point in keeping a car, parked right outside your house, if you can't actually use it to travel anywhere.

[Carrie]

Having lived on Oglander Road (at the station end) for the last 16 years I don't think the parking situation has substantially deteriorated during that period - we did not need a CPZ when it was proposed a few years back and we do not need one now. More often than not we can park either outside our house or a few houses away. When we can't park on Oglander then we can park just around the corner Everthorpe Road.

[TheArtfulDogger]

Dear Rahrahrah

Isn't it obvious, you can travel to other places but then you have to pay the council to park there either in a car park or on a council owned meter

A CPZ is win win win financially for a council

[Earl Aelfheah]

feck it, I'll go out on a limb and say I doubt there are more than a handful of people who genuinely cannot park within a few minutes walk of their front door, more often than not, anywhere in ED. *ducks, takes cover under desk*

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> feck it, I'll go out on a limb and say I doubt there are more than a handful of people who

> genuinely cannot park within a few minutes walk of their front door, more often than not, anywhere in

> ED. *ducks, takes cover under desk*

I think the problem is that people want to park within a few seconds walk from their house. Which, in most parts of London, is just fantasy thinking.

[gaylad]

Though there's roughly enough parking, it is irritating to be unable to easily park within 10 or more houses of mine when unloading. Deliveries on Ondine Road during the working week from commercial vehicles invariably mean being double parked.

I would love to see a cheap residents' permit scheme where some parts of one side of the road were limited to residents, and the other side remained a free-for-all. This would at least be a good experiment if restrictions were at the ends of the road nearest to Grove Vale, without having to charge visitors for parking or some complex scheme for handing out vouchers to visiting friends of residents.

However, my professional experience with Council parking departments, is that residents would be charged ?150/year or more for the permit, and every year the Council would be tempted to see parking charges a cash cow that they should milk a bit more from. So thumbs down, unless the Council were to make some firm commitments on how it was to work, perhaps with a residents group to help hold them to account if things start to go wrong.