Greengrocer in Northcross Road

[ibo]

The following is an alleged incident. It may have taken place, it may not have, it may be a mis-understanding. The forum is a great place for people to share their views and opinions but remember they are someone's views, it doesn't mean they are factually correct. - The Administrator

I asked my son , who has mild learning difficulties , to go and buy some walnuts from this greengrocers . He came back with a handful of walnuts , half of which were dirty and half-broken . I returned to the shop with my son where I was told by the manager/owner in a very arrogant and rude manner " what did you expect walnuts too look like?" . It seems that they had these were the only walnuts left and were good enough for my obviously disabled son.

The irony here is that the shop was very busy ( Saturday 21 July ) and seems to sell what , in the main , looked to be excellent produce which is attractive to the many people who prefer smaller , more personalized shops .

Perhaps i should return with some literature on how the disabled should be treated in present day society.

Ibo

[Ultraconsultancy]

That's awful ibo - I've run shops for a number of years and always saw people with challenges as a valuable source of return business.

It's the difference between appearance and reality that makes a business successful.

[ibo]

Thank you Ultraconsultancy . They seem to be very successful but ignorant as regards disability laws and the need to treat

all people equally and decently . My son was served by a young boy and for this reason , and not the 59pence refund , i returned to the shop to give them the opportinity to apologize and rectify the situation . The manager/owner decided otherwise and was arrogant and rude . He was also very silly as the shop was full and other customers became aware of my complaint that I tried to keep low-profile .

Ibo

[spadetownboy]

i dont really see what the problem is,according to yourself the walnuts that your son received were the only walnuts left in the shop, so why should the shop owner apologise he provided the service requested. perhaps your son took them because thats what you asked for and he didnt want to incur your wrath by returning home empty handed and therefore the quality of the item was never considered by him. i dont see why the issue of "mild learning difficulties" comes into it as most children in the same situation would act in a similar way. in future if you,re concerned about the quality of products received it might be worthwhile doing it yourself and at least it would spare the rest of us having to listen to you.

[Ganapati]

Actually, I don't go to this store anymore, because I find them rude and arrogant even without being disabled! I was buying fruit and despite the display being full of beautiful, firm ripe apples, the person tending the shop that day went out into the back and returned with a bag full of old ones they were obviously trying to get rid of. Same with the other produce I bought. I then asked for organic bananas, but they gave me regular ones. When I did complain, they said that's all they had. Meanwhile, another customer asked for organic bananas too and the other person helping out went in the back and got some! I know they get busy, but to me there is no excuse for this. I have never returned. I'd rather go to the organic produce store on Lordship Lane. Those guys are very friendly and very helpful--and incidentally very nice to children.

[ibo]

Thanks for your compassion Spadetownboy . The walnuts should not have been sold in that condition . My son told me that they were put in a back out of sight from somewhere at the back of the shop . One wonders whether these shoddy goods would have been given to him were he not obviously disabled .My son is a trusting and honest man who is certainly not frightened of me .

It is people such as yourselves and many others in society that made it necessary for the government to pass laws attempting to safeguard the rights of the disabled . I suspect that you are a lost cause.

Ibo

[Ganapati]

Spadetownboy--aren't you being a bit harsh? Anyway, forget her son being disabled, what about Ibo's treatment upon returning to the store? Surely, the store manager could have found a better way to handle the situation?

[Ganapati]

Ibo--I too think it's awful how your son was treated. In my earlier post I said "forget about [him] being disabled" what I meant was, treating someone disbaled badly is poor enough, but it was also bad customer relations when you went in to try to rectify things.

[spadetownboy]

its got nothing to do with disabled people but you are trying to make an issue of the fact that your son was allegedly supplied with duff produce because he has an obvious disability, you asked for walnuts and walnuts are what you got, from what ganapati says it appears to be a problem with the shop in general and as i pointed out and ganapatis post appears to back this up your son would have received the same walnuts regardless of whether or not he was disabled. so the fact that he has "mild learning difficulties" should not be used as a license to accuse of all and sundry of being biased towards those people who have disabilities. it is more likely for people like yourself that various legislation was passed to ensure equal treatment for persons with disabilites to prevent their parents wearing the disability like some badge of honour.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Crikey!

I just don't understand people who stand up on behalf of bad, disreputable retailers!

And of course at the end of the day it isn't really about disability - although if any advantage was taken of this young chap it's reprehensible - it's quite simply about looking after people who give you money for the things you sell.

It ain't rocket science guys!

[ibo]

Ganapati was able to refuse their produce because she is not disabled and could see through their shoddy behavior.

My son was also served with produce that was obtained from the rear of the shop .

It says much about you that you chose to concentrate on my son's disability, rather than the behavior of the shop . I have made a specific point about the shop , not all and sundry.

On returning to the shop I made no attempt to wear the disability as " a badge of honour " , and offered them the opportunity to resolve the complaint specifically about the walnuts.

You have much to learn about shop service , the law and the treatment of people that are less able than yourself.

Ibo

[Ganapati]

Oh Spadetownboy, why must you be so cruel? Yes, it is a matter of customer service, but who knows, maybe they did think they could palm off some bad walnuts on this boy. I'm sure there must be some sizing up of customers to see who will complain and who won't. They seemed very put off and surprised when I complained. Anyway, I think you really crossed the line with the comment "wearing disability as a badge of honor".

[*Bob*]

Just to clarify.. This is 'Pretty Traditional' we're talking about here?

Isn't the young fella in question the son of the owner? Sounds like a 'Clash of the Dads' incident to me.

This thread is another 'EDD Egg Incident' in the making. Run for cover!

I'm going to stay out of harm's way. We're off to the Lambeth Country Show to feel an owl or two.

[ibo]

I can assure you Bob that I was not interested nor sought a " Clash of the Dads" . The owner is fortunate that I did not seek to cause a scene , but rather to deal with the matter in a gentle and low key way . Had he apologized and refunded the money we would have been gone before any customers realized.

Ibo

[ibo]

Ganapati Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ibo--I too think it's awful how your son was

> treated. In my earlier post I said "forget about

> being disabled" what I meant was, treating someone

> disbaled badly is poor enough, but it was also bad

> customer relations when you went in to try to

> rectify things.

Thanks Ganapati.The problem with such shops is that they seem to attract enough customers not to worry about the minority that have legitimate complaints.

Ibo

[ibo]

Ganapati Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh Spadetownboy, why must you be so cruel? Yes, it

> is a matter of customer service, but who knows,

> maybe they did think they could palm off some bad

> walnuts on this boy. I'm sure there must be some

> sizing up of customers to see who will complain

> and who won't. They seemed very put off and

> surprised when I complained. Anyway, I think you

> really crossed the line with the comment "wearing

> disability as a badge of honor"

Spadetownboy is entitled to his views. I can assure you that the only badge of honor I wear is one where i try not to be too judgmental and treat all and sundry with the decency they deserve.Lets hope when he is old that he remains healthy and able.

Ibo

[SeanMacGabhann]

Without wishing to tread on anyones toes here, I have to confess to reading the initial post and thinking some balance was needed - which spadetownboy provided.

A shop sells someone the fag-end of a batch of products - it's hardly news is it? It happens to lot's of us all the time. Sometimes the fag-end isn't too bad and sometimes it is and a bit of "an exchange" happens. I don't think it's sharp practice really. But the shop stands accused of taking advantage of your son's disability which is more serious and given that what actually happened happens to lot's of us how can the charge be sustained?

Ibo - it was you who introduced your son's disabilities at the very beginning with the obvious subtext that he was being taken advantage of - a terrible situation if that is the case. But to accuse spadetownboy of focusing on the disabilities seems a bit cheeky since that is what forms the basis of your argument?

As for people "standing up for bad, disreputable retailers" Ultraconsultancy - I wouldn't say they covered themselves in glory on this one but they hardly fit the "bad & disreputable" description most of the time?

[spadetownboy]

ibo before you add new posts you should really get into the habit of reading through your previous ones on the same subject as it is then possible to avoid contradicting oneself ie,in your first and second and third posts you clearly refer to disabled persons/learning diffs as being the issue and patently the reason why your son was given unsuitable produce,yet in your fourth post you accuse me of being the person concentrating on the disability issue and you on the issue with the shop.secondly in your final post you congratulate yourself on being a non-jugmental person yet again in posts 1,2,3 and 4 you are shouting off about the shop owners my own and "many others" perceived lack of knowledge about disabled persons and disabilities,sounds pretty judgemental to me.

[ibo]

Spadetownboy , you accuse of not reading my previous posts . Have a second look at yours . My first post presented the bare facts of the situation . You immediately started taking a negative stance about disabled people and badge of honors .Perhaps you should have asked further questions before putting your in the wrong place .

Ibo

[spadetownboy]

listen ibo you,re sinking here big time,it has already been pointed out to you by another forum poster that you started the whole disability issue, no one has made an issue of it apart from you so drop it.

[ibo]

what are you talking about ? You have blatantly attempted to misinterpret everything that i have said about this shop that behaved badly towards my son and subsequently myself. You have made some atrocious comments about disabled people in general as well as a pathetic comment " spare the rest of us having to listen to you". I do not if you are being provocative deliberately so as to the rest of "us" how big a man that you are .

This shop seems to sell shoddy goods and is extremely rude towards its customers , according to my son's experience and that of Ganapati . It seems that you have to focus your attention on the goods they put in bags .Subsequent complaints may not be treated politely.

[geh]

sad to read this post, never had a problem with this retailer, in fact - imho they are one of the best in ED!

[Frisco]

"listen ibo you,re sinking here big time,it has already been pointed out to you by another forum poster that you started the whole disability issue, no one has made an issue of it apart from you so drop it."

Actually you sank and lost big time at the point you wrote, "in future if you're concerned about the quality of products received it might be worthwhile doing it yourself and at least it would spare the rest of us having to listen to you". I don't think this was necessarily a disability issue as it's not just people with learning difficulties who can get fobbed off with below standard goods (although they may be more susceptible than most), but parts of your response were unnecessary and, quite simply, rude.

[Ultraconsultancy]

It was a widely accepted axiom in customer services for many years that a bad shopping experience would be communicated to nine people.

One of the fantastic things about web2.0 forums like this is it raises the complaining power of the recipient shopper by a HUGE amount. In fact it's 207 on this thread.

Retailers have three clear choices;

1. Shape up

2. Get your defence in early, then try 1. above later

3. Don't worry, you can get along fine without all theses geeky net-heads

And if you don't do 1 or 2, you'll have to do 3.

Ibo, I hope you find walnuts somewhere that loves you, your son, and your return business.

[macroban]

> It was a widely accepted axiom in customer services for many years that a bad shopping experience would be communicated to nine people.

> One of the fantastic things about web2.0 forums like this is it raises the complaining power of the recipient shopper by a HUGE amount. In fact it's 207 on this thread.

With a rider: whether it's true or not.