NCT v NHS antenatal classes

[kerry.finlay]

I reserved a place on an NCT class programme in September in east dulwich, and have been sent the booking form and need to pay up. However I nearly had a heart attack when I read the letter as it is ?325 total for the 2 of us (I heard it was ?160 which I could justify but didn't realise that was EACH!).

I know it's a charity etc etc, but seriously... we have 3 months of building work coming up before LO arrives and I'm trying to save for a year off - I can think of better things to do with that money!

Are they really worth it? Are the NHS ones ok? Heard they're at Dulwich hospital?

I know NCT is more personal (only 3 couples in this one and it's at someone's house). But not sure I can justify it. Have friends who've done both and have total mixed bag of opinions.

Any experience??

thanks

kerry

[apenn]

I did the one at Kings and thought it was OK. It's really focused on labour and not so much on the first few weeks after you have your baby. There were some nice couples there that I could have seen keeping in touch with, but to my knowledge no one did. I've heard that the nice thing about the NCT classes is that it's a closer knit group that meets up afterward and a good source of post-birth support. However, if the class your taking is only 3 couples I would think that aspect would be negated - unless of course you get on really well with those other 2 couples. Seems like a lot of money to spend to make friends!

[Ko]

i'm sure the one i did last year was about ?160 for BOTH of us in the couple. there were 6 couples in the group which was a nice number. could you ring up and ask if there are any cheaper courses? ?160 is still quite a lot but the nct classes i did (with tessa in east dulwich) were truly great - very, very informative and managed to sink in (unlike my reading of the books). i was unsure if the classes would be my cup of tea, but i am a complete convert now - really prepared me and made me feel easier about everything that was coming up. could ask lots of questions too. haven't done the nhs classes but i am sure they are fine, so you shouldn't discount that as an option. good luck! x

[kerry.finlay]

thanks Ko. Do you have any contact details for tessa in east dulwich?? thanks!

[verds]

The one at Kings is fine. In the classes I did we made a list of what we wanted to know and they went through and answered our questions. I know a lot of people do NCT to make friends, but I answered a post on here from someone who wanted to meet other pregnant ladies - I'd really recommend doing that. I was scared to go and meet them at first but I'm so glad I did. Now we have a lovely group of nearly one-year-olds and I have proper mum friends. Oh, and you can spend the 300 quid on going out for dinner before the baby's born!

[crystal7]

Like verds i met some lovely friends whilst pregnant by replying to a post on the edf. We still meet up now 17 months on. I did nhs classes too and they were fairly informative about labour especially about procedure at kings. I couldn't justify the cost to myself either- wanted to spend the money on a buggy!

[Ko]

yes i have made lots of mummy friends other than my nct friends. its very easy to meet other mums in ED! i don't have the number still, but google 'nct southwark', which is how i found the details originally. i think the lady who does the bookings is called ann?

edited to say this is the link i think and the booking lady's name is alison:

http://www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-area/southwark

[Jo31]

I did both NCT and Kings ante natal classes. The Kings course was to the point, told me what I needed to know and very much reflected the experience I had - started off naturally with all my wishes being taken into account (by the way their breast feeding course was excellent). The midwife who taught the Kings course was very experienced and took a very pragmatic approach.

NCT - met a great bunch of people who I'm still in contact with but spent many sessions sniggering and suppressing giggles at some of the things that were said and the approach taken (and I wasn't alone - we still all laugh about it now). Socially it was great and has provided my son with some great friends and a fantastic local support network but in terms of giving birth, I found the King's course fine. To get the friendship and support you can always join a local NCT tea group after you have had your baby. Good luck!

[KateW]

The NCT course I'm booked on is ?170 for both of us. I'd check that they haven't made a mistake; ?325 is a crazy amount of money.

[kerry.finlay]

Thanks ladies. Some great advice!

I wrote back to Alison/NCT re the price and she said...

"The price includes a membership fee of ?39 which is not obligatory at all.

If you deduct that the price is ?285.80 for a 21 hour course for 2 people.

If you have been onto the East Dulwich forum I think you will find that

those who have attended a long course such as this in London will all have

paid similar prices. The courses are of course cheaper out of London."

Why do we get screwed cos we live in London?!

Maybe their intensive courses are cheaper.

KateW - were you on an intensive course?

Spoke to some friends last night and one had a great idea - hire a private midwife for a day or half day before and after the baby is born to come and talk you through the main issues, answer questions and give advice. Then use EDF and local baby classes post-baby to meet mums. Think that might be a very good idea!

[Fuschia]

Jo31 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

To get the friendship and

> support you can always join a local NCT tea group

> after you have had your baby.

The system has folded here in SE22, butthere are other ways ofmaking mummy friends.

[Fuschia]

kerry.finlay Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Spoke to some friends last night and one had a

> great idea - hire a private midwife for a day or

> half day before and after the baby is born to come

> and talk you through the main issues, answer

> questions and give advice.

Or a doula to eb with you. If you are booked with any of the community midwives (Lanes, Brierly etc) I would presume they do discuss birth plans etc with you anyway? I never attended any classes, though I had independent midwuves with me. My knowledge of issues around birth all came from reading, though, inc my investigations into the safety of a natural birth with twins.

[chuck]

I think the hospital antenatal classes pretty much tell you what you know already aside from the breastfeeding workshop which was really useful.

I would really recommend doing an NCT class, the antenatal and labour information is great, but the crucial thing for me was the close group of friends you make. My child is nearly 5 and I still see pretty much all my NCT class every week. The children have grown up together and are great friends.

I have to say that when i first met my group I thought i had nothing in common with any of them but the thing that draws you all together is you are all going through exactly the same thing at exactly the same time. All our babies were born within 4 weeks of each other. When babies are small even a couple of months is such a significant difference ( 3 month baby is so different to a 6 month baby), so to have close contact with other parents who's babies are at exactly the same stage is such a boost - you are all talking about the same things.

[Keef]

We didn't do NCT because of the money, we just felt it was too much for what they were offering. We went to classes at St Thomas' and were pleased with them.

I'm not saying this is right, so don't bite my head off, but one midwife we know (as a friend) said she gets annoyed because she's seen lots of women who have been made to feel guilty about having epidurals by the NCT, as if it's failing somehow, and that they don't paint a real picture of what labour can be like. Only the "perfect" labour, where everything goes smoothly.

As I say, that is not my opinion, as we didn't go to classes, so I'd have no right saying it, but it would worry me.

I suspect you're more likely to make friends at NCT classes though, so it depends whether you already know lots of parents or not.

[new mother]

Friend of mine has one answer to the mere concept of "guilt" re epidurals.

"show me a footballer who gets his broken leg reset without state of the art anaesthetic"

[Keef]

Quite right! Thought Mrs Keef was going to stab this bloke, not long after our daughter was born, when he said "women who have epidurals, or 'lazy mothers' as I call them". What a tw@t.

If you don't need one, great! Sure everyone would love not to need one. But to look down at someone who is in so much pain, they're willing to have a dirty big needle IN THEIR SPINE, is just sh!t.

Anyway, sorry, off topic.

[Moos]

Ha, brilliant. As though your quality as a mother (and indeed the work you do as a mother) is defined by the few hours of birth, and not the years of upbringing.

I have to say my experience of NCT did rather lead me to think that 'interventions' were failure, and as for being in labour for ages without being able to sleep or eat, then having an epidural and ending up with an emergency C-Section... what a loser, classic case of someone who Just Didn't Try Hard Enough, and See Where You Ended Up.

I didn't do NCT in East Dulwich, though - don't want to inadvertently smear the lady on this forum who teaches NCT.

[new mother]

Moos, yes exactly; where IS their fighting spirit? ;-)

[prdarling]

I did NCT and found they really put the psychological screws on re home births, breastfeeding and no intervention. The one girl in our group of 9 who ended up with a c-section felt like a failure and the 3 girls who eagerly signed up for a home birth after 2 weeks not-so-subtle pressure were disappointed when they were blue lighted to hospital.

I can understand why they try to lead you away from epidurals etc (after all they are the Natural Childbirth Trust, so it's kind of the point) - statistically you are likely to end up with more intervention and possibly an emergency c-section, but they do make you feel guilty for even considering it. Nobody can explain quite how bad the pain will get (and if they did you'd never believe them ::o) and surely it's your right to choose how you deal with it

I also objected to having a session about what happens if you have a stillborn baby. This is most definitely not what you need to think about when you are 36 weeks pregnant. Yes it's a terribly sad reality for some people but I rather think a bridge to be crossed as and when, rather than it then praying on your mind for the rest of your pregnancy

[sillywoman]

No, motherhood carries enough guilt with it, guilt for having an epidural is entirely pointless and not at all useful to a new Mum - each woman's labour is individual to her. No one else can decide how much pain relief she needs and of what type as no-one else is experiencing what she's feeling. No-one should ever judge anyone on choices made during labour - ever. However I do think the analogy with a footballer having his leg broken isn't the most appropriate comparison to the pain during labour which generally comes and goes, and for most women isn't like the experience of 'broken limb' pain at all. Definitely a dodgy comparison.

Hi Kerry, sorry to highjack your thread there. I'm one of the NCT teachers in ED (the one mentioned earlier in the thread). I'm not sure you're booked on my course though as my September ones are already full & I take 6 couples at a time - it may be that you're booked on under a different name? However if you want to ask any questions about the classes that we run, or speak to any women who have already done them to get a sense of whether of it would be worth it for you then I can help. It's probably best if you PM me for more information if you feel it would be helpful to you. The idea of booking a private midwife or doula for information is an interesting one, but it's very different to what I do & from what you'd get out of your NCT classes.

Keef - that's a really unhelpful comment so I am going to bite your head off. You didn't seriously think I'd let that one pass did you? The old "a friend in the know said this" line is frankly a cheap shot & not worthy of you. Now, I don't know where your midwife friend works or how she came by her view so I'm struggling to know how best to defend myself or my profession adequately. However, defend myself & the charity I work for I must, so to tackle the accusation; I & most other NCT teachers I know locally work really, really hard to give a realistic overview of labour and birth, & not paint a rose tinted picture of the 'perfect' birth. it's a common misconception among some obstetric midwives that the rose tinted thing is what we do. I would refute that strongly and can only say that if any of the Mums or Dads who have been through my classes & feel that I gave them a misleading picture of the 'perfect' birth would you please please post on this forum to say so? One of my main aims is to give women & their birth partners realistic expectations of what to expect physiologically, emotionally & systematically. To prepare them as far as possible for the rollercoaster ride that labour & birth can be, the decisions that they may encounter along the 'ride' & how to get the best out of the system available to them.

As for the NCT making anyone feel guilty for having an epidural. Well, the NCT is an organisation made up of people - like any big organisation there are a wide range of views encompassed in it - I can only comment on my personal experience of it, having had 3 epidurals in labour myself, I've never, ever been made to feel an ounce of guilt for my choices and I really hope that I reflect the lack of judgement I've experienced in my work for the NCT charity? Inducing guilt or any sense of failure in new mothers is about as far from the aims of the NCT as it's possible to get.

[sillywoman]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Moos, yes exactly; where IS their fighting spirit?

> ;-)

It's here and roused!!!

SW

[nikki73]

I didn't do NCT either because of cost, timetables and not sure about the philosophy (but I agree that it really depends on who teaches you). As other posters say you meet mums/mums to be easily on the forum. The length of your mat leave could influence your decision though. If you are going back to work quite soon after the birth then there could be some advantages to NCT. Retrospectively I am quite happy I didn't do it.

[lorraineliyanage]

I did the NCT class with Tess and although we were keen for a home birth, it was no big deal when I was shipped off to hospital and eventually had a C-section. I must admit that the epidural did make the pushing bit impossible, so it's something I'd consider avoiding the second-time around, although it made the contractions a breeze :)

[Keef]

I can understand why they try to lead you away from epidurals etc (after all they are the Natural Childbirth Trust, so it's kind of the point)

I thought it was National Childbirth Trust?

Sillywoman, how is it unhelpful? Someone has asked for opinions about it, so I gave an opinion I'd heard (she works at Chelsea & Westminister, so you don't need to worry). Other people then went on to say that they'd had the type of experience I'd described, so bite my head off all you like, but I don't think my post was unfair.

Don't take everything said about the NCT as a direct comment about your classes. I even made a point of saying

As I say, that is not my opinion, as we didn't go to classes, so I'd have no right saying it, but it would worry me.

[prdarling]

Keef

Sorry you are right, but it was originally called the Natural Childbirth Trust but changed its name to National and I doubt they abandoned their original principles :-S

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti NCT I just think that there when you do the course there is a very strong sense of what you should be able to achieve which isn't always the case and this leves some people feeling upset