Pregnant woman smoking down Lordship lane!

[SeanMacGabhann]

There is no question you have a negative view

Whether it is an overly-negative view, disproportionate to the risks is where we differ

I hold that you have no perspective on the issue and had no right to impose that perspective on a stranger. A point of view I share with your husband

As for dismissing other factors ? you said ?am not sure that the risks of a poor diet are 'even greater than smoking during pregnancy'? ? which sounded dismissive to me

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Can I just say that crossing the road is a part of life, we have to cross the road to get where we need to get to.

Smoking is not a risk we have to take, smoking is something we choose to do.

I think my example of a shot of vodka is better since we can choose to have a shot of vodka, a fag etc.

Also there is lots of posts about people feeling the need to comment when one is pregnant see here: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,480477,page=1 When you become pregnant it does appear that we become public property, I have had numerous comments when I was pregnant about what I can/can't do and so on. So smoking whilst pregnant in public is just asking for it really just as others saying they felt they could not have a glass of wine in public for fear of people judging. People are just looking out for the precious cargo!

[Keef]

I have nothing to hide with regards the fact I smoke. It is not big or clever, but I am not ashamed of it, and I take great care to keep it from annoying others who don't smoke.

I have no idea who has sent you a PM about me (if indeed they did). I can only guess that it may be based on THIS RECENT THREAD, in which I said

I sat outside the CPT with my dad, and my 15 month old daughter yesterday enjoying a cold pint and a smoke (smoked well away from my daughter).

If from that, someone has decided that I smoke around pregnant women and children, then words escape me, but you can think what you like about me, I'll lose no sleep over it.

Thankfully, public opinion regarding cigarette smoking in this country has undergone significant changes in the last few decades. Majority opinion has shifted toward a more negative view of smoking, (shouts) ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE IS DOING IT WHO IS PREGNANT!

That is all very true, but it still does not give you the right to go and tell a stranger off on the street.

[monniemae]

Everyday since this thread started I?ve watched and read with increasing horror. I cannot believe that this woman thought it acceptable for her to verbally ?let loose? on another person in the street.

Yes, smoking is harmful, yes, it?s better that women don?t smoke when pregnant, but it?s not just an ?allegation? that medical professionals can and do say it?s better to have the odd one / cut down than to freak out (or be freaked out by some horrible judgmental attack ? and it is an attack, when you judge and accost someone like that). Science and cause/effect is just not that straightforward that you can decide this woman was directly and immediately and identifiably harming her baby. And even if it was, the lack of empathy and understanding you show is astounding.

Saila is right that someone addicted to this would be more likely to light up again (in private) than to stub out. I would add that ill-judged attempts to publicly shame pregnant women will in my view simply make people less likely to admit to smoking ? even to their midwife or doctor. Is that helpful to the foetus??

There are so many reasons why this woman may have been ?brazenly? smoking. But there seems only one reason why you turned into an interfering ... You think you are better than her, and better-placed to ?care? about her child. To me, raising my children (by example) to be thoughtful, empathetic and tolerant is a hell of a lot more important than encouraging them to judge and criticise strangers.

Perhaps you are outside the metaphorical glasshouse, and you can confirm that before you threw these verbal stones in the street, you consumed no unnecessary calories during pregnancy, you ensured you had no stress, sudden shocks or emotional lows that could affect hormone levels in your womb, that you?ve never left your small baby to cry even for a moment lest it raise their cortisol, that you had a rear facing buggy and you held them for several hours a day and you never touched a drop of alcohol and you never inhaled traffic fumes on Lordship Lane ? If so, congratulations, now you just need to make sure you?re still having fun and not being neurotic. Frankly I don?t know how anyone has any time to worry about other people?s children when they have their own.

I hope that you were genuinely motivated by some kind of concern for the woman, as well as *her* foetus, and you honestly thought you could help nudge her to give up, and that you were just utterly misguided. But your comments on here, to me, reinforce the suspicion that you have a) a lack of desire or ability to see this from the other woman?s perspective; and b) a shaky understanding of science and medical advice; and c) an unwillingness to truly engage with anyone who disagrees with you ? instead preferring to ?allege? people have PMd you from fear of ?bullying?. YOU are the bully, and had I seen you speak to this woman, I'd have suggested you think about the example you are setting to YOUR children and leave everyone else?s *unborn* children alone.

[Saila]

Nice post Monniemae and I couldn't agree with you more on all your points

And before you guys pass judgment...

No, Monniemae isn't smoking whilst pregnant

In fact she doesn't smoke at all

I know, because she's a close friend of mine

[Ligaturiosity]

monniemae, it's a free world and you are entitled to your opinion. However, your analogies are beyond ridiculous and deliberately contrary.

Sean M, it might have sounded dismissive but I did not dismiss the importance of diet. I take on board and respect your very different opinion but it is not one I share. Remotely.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Difference being I won't accost you in public with my different viewpoint. Happy to disagree on here tho

[peckhamboy]

That's because you're a cyber bully Sean, who's afraid to say boo to a goose in public.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Busted!

[seanareprawn]

monniemae, it's a free world and you are entitled to your opinion. However, your analogies are beyond ridiculous and deliberately contrary.

Once again avoiding the argument with nonsensical sweeping statements. Do not feed the troll

[missus]

HeidiHi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Smoking is not a risk we have to take, smoking is

> something we choose to do.

..clearly not, and have never been, a smoker then, HH?!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Yes, I smoked for a short while in my teens, but didn't like it and gave it up.

And smoking IS a choice, no one makes you go to the shops and buy cigarettes and then puff them do they?

missus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HeidiHi Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Smoking is not a risk we have to take, smoking

> is

> > something we choose to do.

>

>

> ..clearly not, and have never been, a smoker then,

> HH?!

[missus]

.... are you familiar with the definition of 'addiction'?!

[helena handbasket]

Ligaturiosity this is you sinking to a new low:

> Well Keef I am glad that the rest of it is BS, but

> I got two PMs from people alleging that is what

> you did/do. I am glad that you have managed to set

> the record straight.

I continue to follow this ridiculous thread because it's like a car crash......... you don't want to look but you can't stop yourself. Every time I feel that you have really proven yourself to be a dim, ignorant sociopath you get back on here and keep going. I suppose one has to admire your blind narcissism.

As for these people who PM you to gossip about Keef's habit of blowing smoke at people's babies, well shame on you. This is beginning to resemble a bad high school movie. Say it and mean FFS instead of this teenage gossip BS. Classic bullying.

[giggirl]

Ligaturiosity - what a BIG BULLY you are and all the while trying to accuse other people of being bullies. Unbelievable. I don't think I've ever seen the like of such bullying on the forum.

Throwing accusations at Keef on a public forum to say you've had PMs from (a bunch of cowards) not prepared to post on an open forum. That's a whole new low. (I've never met Keef BTW).

And this....

Ligaturiosity Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

I note that you 'habitually' pop up

> shouting your mouth off on various occasions which

> is fine I suppose...but definitely pot calling the

> kettle black.

>

Is this a joke FFS? Don't have a pop at Sean for posting his views on a forum - that doesn't make him a bully. At least he's prepared to post what he thinks, not whisper snide remarks in private like you're doing with Keef.

You're making personal attacks on people who disagree with you now and it's saying way more about YOU than THEM.

[jam]

Yes, you will find she mentioned it in earlier posts.

Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> .... are you familiar with the definition of

> 'addiction'?!

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Jam is my sister's account ( though my mum uses it also!) but yes I mentioned it in earlier posts about the addiction, there are help to break the addiction, and if you want to give something up, you can, I know lots people that I have done, my mum, my dad, my sister, friends, etc. The fact that people have given it up means it is possible and I would like to think Pregnancy is the one time you would give up.

I liked my weekly bottles of wine, I craved them when I was pregnant but I didn't drink because I didn't want to risk it.

[helena handbasket]

Okay HeidiH /Jam I think you are flogging a dead horse.

We get that you are against smoking. I think that since you are such an expert on cracking addictions there is an entire industry out there that could use your help........ millions have tried but YOU have the answer!

Super!

edited for usual crap editing......

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

Who said I want to go stop everyone's addiction?

I just think pregnancy is the one time you stop bad vices, as Lig said, there are help for smokers out there, patches etc.

Some people are just weaker than other people. That is all it is, weakness. Nothing in life is easy, but I am a firm believer in that if you really want to do something, you will find that willpower , there is evidence of that everywhere.

If pregnancy and children don't give you the motivation and willpower, nothing will.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Oh I dunno - having a stranger come up to me and "politely" tell me I'm being disgusting must be a sure-fire winner

[giggirl]

Yes HH you're right. Some people are WEAK. Let's save ourselves a lot of trouble for the future, put all the WEAK people against a wall and shoot them shall we? Serves them right for being weak.

Good for you that you're not weak like the others.

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

It might shock her into thinking about it. If someone told me they were disgusted that I was smoking and harming my baby, I would feel guilty, but that is me and my conscience and I would know they are right.

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> Oh I dunno - having a stranger come up to me and

> "politely" tell me I'm being disgusting must be a

> sure-fire winner

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

That is rather dramatic isn't it?

giggirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes HH you're right. Some people are WEAK. Let's

> save ourselves a lot of trouble for the future,

> put all the WEAK people against a wall and shoot

> them shall we? Serves them right for being weak.

>

> Good for you that you're not weak like the others.

[Ligaturiosity]

Helena Handbasket, so you feel the urgent need to read this thread and use the excuse that it is 'car crash', lol, 'you can't stop yourself'. Get a grip. But I know what you mean....:)

You refer to me as a'dim ignorant sociopath'. Yes this IS now resembling a 'bad high school movie', greatly helped by your input.

[helena handbasket]

Yep just glad I could help.

Edited to add: I'm just calling it as I see it. You are the one suggesting there is a whole other conversation going on behind the scenes, made complete by nasty messages about people who disagree with you. THAT is high school drama, lady.