JP Wetherspoons (The Vale)

[DJKillaQueen]

It used to be as well that pubs really were the social hub of the community, village etc. These days thre are so many other places to go and other things to do. It's hard to know what the answer is. Maybe it is just the end of the line for the Great British Pub as the industry evolves into something else for those that survive it.

For me price is an important factor. I want value and I want a range of ciders on tap (that's what I drink). I don't buy the idea that high beer prices are about anything but maximised profit. Only in London would a (non central) pub get away with charging ?4.80 for a bottle of cider that costs 70p to buy wholesale. Several pubs in ED are ripping their customers off and have priced whole sections of people (who used to be their customers) from going there - and we are not talking about alcoholics and students either.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Sue Wrote:

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> I am very happy to hear this news.

>

> Wetherspoons have a great range of well-kept real

> ale at excellent prices - which hopefully they

> won't raise because it's ED.

>

> Agree the food is bog-standard microwaved crap,

> but it is filling and cheap crap, and good value

> for what you get, especially with their

> two-for-one offers. They're not in the market for

> competing with Franklins!

>

> The atmosphere varies depending on the pub, but I

> used to run a group which had regular monthly

> get-togethers at Penderel's Oak on High Holborn,

> and it was ideal for us because there was a large

> no-smoking area (in the days before the ban), and

> no music, so we could hear ourselves speak. Its

> loos were also, deservedly, featured in the Good

> Loo Guide!

>

> I think The Vale is in a good spot, near the

> station, but it's always had a rather strange

> atmosphere and the ale not always well kept. I

> hope its new incarnation thrives!

>

> :)-D

>

> ETA: Guess we won't be seeing the gloomy Skidmarks

> in there :)) Best stick to the Bishop, mate :))

> I'd rather cut myself to bits with a rusty saw

> than drink in there, but each to their own :))

I find myself agreeing with Sue. The Vale isnt a huge asset to the area and has no USP. At least the beer in a 'spoons is ale and cheap and the food is OK in a school dinners sort of way.

.. and I work in an office above the Penderel Oak! Its a bit cavenous but its fine for a few cheapish pints after work.

[Sue]

There are good chains and bad chains, surely, just as there are good independent businesses and bad independent businesses.

The people in ED who can't afford to drink and eat in the places charging nearly four quid a pint and thirty quid for a meal will go to Wetherspoons. And maybe also those who like a decent selection of real ale at a reasonable price.

The snobby people who look down their noses at the people who like/can only afford Wetherspoons won't go to Wetherspoons. Good.

Horses for courses.

And maybe whoever opened the first Wetherspoons had a passion for what they were doing and wanted to spread it elsewhere. Just a thought.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, they do cheap booze.... but so do Samuel Smiths, and I'd rather have one of those!

[Sue]

louisiana Wrote:

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> Ah, Sue, so maybe I should be giving my money to

> the Vince Power/Mean Fiddler/Festival

> Republic/Melvin Benn events axis, rather than to

> small, independently-owned music events run by a

> people with a passion for what they do. Right!

xxxxxxx

I would hope you'd do as I do and go to whatever events/festivals have the music/artists on that you want to see, regardless of who's running them.

If there'd been a large organisation running folk music gigs in ED I'd have been only too happy to go to them, and would have saved myself a hell of a lot of work :))

So I don't agree with whatever point you're making about pubs, sorry!

[Sue]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Yeah, they do cheap booze.... but so do Samuel

> Smiths, and I'd rather have one of those!

xxxxxx

I'm sure Wetherspoons have Sam Smiths amongst their ales :))

[Timster]

>

> I would hope you'd do as I do and go to whatever

> events/festivals have the music/artists on that

> you want to see, regardless of who's running them.

>

>

Excellent answer Sue! And I think the same rationale should apply to pubs.

[dita-on-tees]

I have post work drinks in Canary Wharf where all the pubs and bars are soulless over priced chains (lets not even start on the clientele...) The description of your mum's pub skids reminds me of village pubs at home (err maybe with additional fighting...). so I now have a craving for a pint of Bedlington Terrier. I have made the mental decision to have a swift one and go home, so thank you, you have saved me from a hangover!

[Jah Lush]

Weatherspoons is fecking shite. End of.

[DJKillaQueen]

lol that's pretty direct.....:))

[aquarius moon]

All you people who run down wetherspoons can obviously afford to go to a better quality pub, with better quality food/drink etc.

Good for you! I wish we could all be in your position!

Spare a thought for the less well-off who still deserve a night out. Pensioners, single parents, people who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

Without chains like wetherspoons, they would never be able to afford a drink, let alone a meal out, and one of these so-called 'rubbish' meals to you, is a special treat for them.

If I am ever fortunate enough to eat out, I never go anywhere BUT wetherspoons, simply because I can't afford it.

[louisiana]

Sue Wrote:

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> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Yeah, they do cheap booze.... but so do Samuel

> > Smiths, and I'd rather have one of those!

>

> xxxxxx

>

> I'm sure Wetherspoons have Sam Smiths amongst

> their ales :))

And if my past experience is anything to go by, it'll be served at two degrees above freezing and undrinkable.

[kford]

Sam Smiths - now there's a decent chain. Much cheaper than JDW's and good pies.

[Lawrence]

On a walk down to the station in the morning you can stop off for crap coffee at a variety of outlets and pay varied prices. Now you will be able to get crap for 49p

[Alex K]

I'm not British (well, I carry the passport, but the Daily Mail would narrow its eyes and look me up and down whilst interrogating me about the cricket and my allegiances). So, great British pub culture, meh. If you say so. 'S not bred in MY bones.

The Fox on the Hill is a place to re-fuel. Franklin's is a place to dine. A lot more folks can see their way clear, financially, to dropping in at the Fox than to dropping in at Franklin's. Indeed, the latter can be off-puttingly poncey.

For those of us (touch forelock, cringe in acknowledged inferiority) who live on the St Francis estate rather than in the leafy purlieux of Lordship Lane, to have another cheap 'n' cheerful place to eat and drink close at hand is not a bad thing. What else is a stroll away for us gamma-minuses? Il Mirto, nom nom nom, yes. But there's a bit of pull-up-your-socks before going there, or so I feel. It's a special place. Takeaway fish 'n' chips and halal chicken 'n' ditto, oh Lord Jesus no. Domino's Pizza, see response to takeaway fisn 'n' chips and halal chicken 'n' ditto. A Thai place on Melbourne Grove that disappointed severely eight years ago... no, never been back, can't be arsed; yes, it was THAT bad.

When of a dark winter evening the dusk closes in at 1530 and my motivation and willpower are slopping about my ankles like a dropsical old lady's lisle stockings, I'll be glad to walk across the street from the station (rather than up through that little park to Sainsbury's for a Taste The Difference heat-a-meal) and to settle in for a couple of pints and a cheap main. The Vale in its present incarnation just... well, it isn't old-slipper easy, at least not for me. Maybe a Wetherspoon's will be. Onward and, one hopes, upward. Everything that rises, etc., and into the noosphere with us all.

[binary_star]

It doesn't really matter what any of us *think* about it, it's what we'll *do* that will count and based on that it will either thrive to become a success or dive and be a failure. Personally, I would not like to see a Wetherspoons here, just as I wouldn't a McDonald's or New Look (or Prada or Gucci outlet for that matter!). I moved to East Dulwich for many reasons, one of which was because I liked the character and individuality of the place. After coming from Streatham (for those who haven't had the delight of visiting, the highstreet is indistinguishable from most others in London), Lordship Lane and the surrounding streets like Northcross Rd were a major attraction. I can't honestly say that the Caf? Nero or Foxtons add to this attraction, and I'd bundle Wetherspoons in with those.

Ah well, it's all down to supply and demand, innit.

[dita-on-tees]

I can understand the defense of Weatherspoons given that it is cheap and therefore accessible to all. Exclusivity based on cost, even though it is a reality, is shitty. My problem is that the big chains have priced the smaller businesses, that really care about the community and the people who go their on a regular basis, out of the market. I always remember it was the "locals" that were cheaper places to go to and the fancy chain bars (ok this was a Yates wine lodge in Durham) were expensive.

In the end we all have choices, my folks live on benefits and dont drink in pubs because its not really an option they feel they have (i blame Ma's fancy tastes for putting pesto in her bread these days) but I dont like that big firms come in obliterate everyone else, pubs and smaller breweries, then suggest they are operating for the less financially better off or the ordinary folk. Weatherspoons makes loads of money, loads of it, and lets not forget that.

[skidmarks]

dita-on-tees Wrote:

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> obliterate everyone else, pubs and smaller

> breweries, then suggest they are operating for the

> less financially better off or the ordinary folk.

> Weatherspoons makes loads of money, loads of it,

> and lets not forget that.

Yes too right they are a FTSE 250 company lets not forget that. Do you actually think that when that old mans heart finally stops and he doesn?t come in the pub for 2 weeks the Polish bar staff on minimum wage will notify the authorities like maybe your local landlady who has been counting your change for decades would!

[DJKillaQueen]

The local landlady didn't notify the authorities when my father (who went there every day) stopped going. It was three weeks before his dead body was discovered at home, so don't make me laugh that local pubs are any better on the one than chains.

[showboat]

Why is it that people really object to a large compsny like Wetherspoons coming to the area?

I've been in the hospitality industry for 11 years now - and currently work for Fullers - so I have a lot of sympathy with those small independants who get squeezed hard by the big boys. This is a fickle and capricious business where, as someone once said, you can do everything right and stiil fail. Wetherspoons have been around since 1984, and on the stock market since 1992. Has it occured to it's enemies that it might actually be providing a service that quite a lot of folk seem to want?

I don't defend Wetherspoons on the ground of cost. I defend it because it's still in business. People have this rose-tinted view of what a local pub should be - but actually it's a massive amount of work. Just ask Scott from the Bishop, I'm sure he'll tell you. Wetherspoons - let me say again - is STILL IN BUSINESS, when many others aren't. And small tenants can blame the pubcos all they want, but they knew what they were getting into. The price of the beer from the brewery is rarely the sole reason that a place fails. Too often vanity on the owners part, or a misjudgement of the local market is a more central flaw.

I may not have made my points very well - it's late and I need to sleep! I don't tend to drink in Wetherspoons myself, because I feel they lack atmosphere. But many others do go there. Are they ALL wrong?

[skidmarks]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> The local landlady didn't notify the authorities

> when my father (who went there every day) stopped

> going. It was three weeks before his dead body was

> discovered at home, so don't make me laugh that

> local pubs are any better on the one than chains.

Well she must have been a bit of a chunt. Sorry about that.

[skidmarks]

showboat Wrote:

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Are they

> ALL wrong?

Nope, no one shops at tesco out of choice do they except that it is the cheapest?but what do you compare it too when there is nothing left but tesco

[dita-on-tees]

Currently work for Fullers...

hmmm i had some of your honey dew tonight, it was rather moreish, quite potent though!

[Horsebox]

@Alex K: Franklins has been accused of many things on this forum but you're waaaay off the mark of you think it's 'poncey'.

Have you ever actually been in there?

[Cassius]

A lot of Weatherspoons are as described, souless and depressing, however these do tend to be the older ones. In Exeter, Weatherspoons bought and restored an old Chapel which revitalised an area of town which was getting run down. Hopefully they will do a good job on the Vale, which was hardly one of the most popular spots in ED.

At a CAMRA do, I was chatting to the CAMRA guys about Weatherspoons, and they said that a lot of people had tried their first real ale in a Weatherspoons which had led them to go out and try different beers in other pubs. I'd probably visit a local Weatherspoons during their beer festivals, and in my opinion the state of the beer served is more a reflection of the manager's attitude than any company wide policy.

It's like the Cafe Nero - if you don't like it don't go (I've never been and have no intention of going), but it's what some people want.