Bomb Damage WWII

[EDOldie]

I was once told that the Germans were partic. keen to disrupt the railway system and South London was so badly hit not as a phony target but to cutlinks between London and the Coast. Does anyone know if this is true? The evidence is the large number of post war houses and other development close to railways.

Forgotton about the hat factoy where St Barnabas Close is now. I'm certain they had something to do with Gordons Garages in ED Road where the flats are now opp.The Green. They were called 'Everoak' and made the riding hats for the (Princess Anne) Olympic riding team.

A good urban tale of the war in Dulwich was that the College was bombed by a German old boy who flew bombers. Returning from a sortie over London he saw the school and thought he do the boys a favour by destroying the science block and swimming pool. Sadly its not true.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Bombing accuracy was bad in those - hence the need for mass bombing to hit one target. There would have been a big focus on the docks and major railway junctions and Dulwich would have suffered collateral damage in the modern parlence.

[Louisa]

A devestating air raid in 1940 destroyed large chunks of the Peckham Rye area, including the ladies munitions factory, the Kings Arms pub, and all surrounding buildings. Most of the site close to the former pub is now a council estate. I always remember being told about a bomb which dropped on a row of terraced victorian houses along Fenwick Road, and it killed 26 people one evening. The former row of terraced houses at the bottom of Fenwick bordering Amott Road is now a small 1950's development of a block of flats. A psychic lady I know often is called out to hauntings in flats at this location where audio/visual paranormal activity has been reported, very spooky stuff!

[macroban]

Geese on Goose Green stuff.

I have yet to see any evidence to support the statement that the Germans bombed to cut the London to South Coast mainlines, but they did target (not very well) major railway junctions.

The data on London railway bombings have been published in B.W.L.Brooksbank "London Main Line War Damage" (2007). [The title is misleading as it also covers London suburban lines]. The book contains complete transcriptions from the original railway companies' war-time log books.

Incidently the one and only East Dulwich station/line incident was a single UXB on 13 September 1940.

To rephrase Mr Palaeologus, South of central London/Docklands the bombs hits were near-random. Unsurprisingly quite a proportion fell near railway lines.

An interesting discussion of the maths of how random points on maps can seem to have patterns can be had in Tom Williamson and Liz Bellamy "Ley Lines in Question" (1983).

[lilolil]

People took shelter in the basement of the Kings Arms when it took a direct hit killing/ trapping them all. Past publicans and barmen/maids would never venture donstairs to the cellar where strange noises and lights were often experienced!!!!

No. 78 Oglander Rd had a bomb drop in the back garden! It blew down the back of my Mums house next door (76)... You can see the repaired brick work.

Houses along Underhill/ Upland/ Friern, Hindmans / Darrell and Crystal Palace rd suffered bomb damage . As did roads in Peckham off of Maxted Rd.

I have a great pic of the street party in Oglander rd taken to celebrate the end of the war!! I will try and post it........dont hold your breath!!!LOL

[EDOldie]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Geese on Goose Green stuff.

>

> I have yet to see any evidence to support the

> statement that the Germans bombed to cut the

> London to South Coast mainlines, but they did

> target (not very well) major railway junctions.

>

> The data on London railway bombings have been

> published in B.W.L.Brooksbank "London Main Line

> War Damage" (2007). . The book contains complete

> transcriptions from the original railway

> companies' war-time log books.

>

> Incidently the one and only East Dulwich

> station/line incident was a single UXB on 13

> September 1940.

>

Thanks for that, clears up that point. Incidentally, the Dulwich Society published a book (which I just found in my bookcase) called Dulwich The Home Front 1939 - 1945 by Brian Green ISBN 09511491 1 3. It's got some good pics and a map showing where the flying bombs landed in Dulwich.

[macroban]

Agent Zig-Zag

? Another quote:

> 'Chapman's deception messages have survived only in fragments. MI5 was careful to destroy the traffic, aware of the potential repercussions if the inhabitants of south London realised they were being sacrificed to protect the centre of the City.'

I've not read this one yet, but, if this is a representative quote, I would treat this book's accuracy with caution.

No history book published since 1990 should be saying this as Volume 5 of of "British Intelligence In The Second World War: Strategic Deception" edited by Michael Howard was published in that year. Specifically, Chapter 8 "Crossbow: The Flying Bombs June-December 1944" covers the subject in detail, quotes from the official documents, and in the "References" at the end of the chapter lists large numbers of extant official files on the subject.

Actual transcripts of the individual signals may have been destroyed in the postwar bonfire, but the records were not.

[rifleman harris]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned on this thread but a bomb fell on Woolworths which is where Foxtons is in LL on a busy saturday; killing loads mostly women and children. I vaguely remember going there as a child when it was still Woolworths sometime in the very late '60s.

[spc]

macroban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Agent Zig-Zag

>

> ? Another quote:

>

> > 'Chapman's deception messages have survived only

> in fragments. MI5 was careful to destroy the

> traffic, aware of the potential repercussions if

> the inhabitants of south London realised they were

> being sacrificed to protect the centre of the

> City.'

>

> I've not read this one yet, but, if this is a

> representative quote, I would treat this book's

> accuracy with caution.

>

> No history book published since 1990 should be

> saying this as Volume 5 of of "British

> Intelligence In The Second World War: Strategic

> Deception" edited by Michael Howard was published

> in that year. Specifically, Chapter 8 "Crossbow:

> The Flying Bombs June-December 1944" covers the

> subject in detail, quotes from the official

> documents, and in the "References" at the end of

> the chapter lists large numbers of extant official

> files on the subject.

>

> Actual transcripts of the individual signals may

> have been destroyed in the postwar bonfire, but

> the records were not.

macroban,

Your post would have been very interesting to my dad if he was still alive (he was a Chapman) and believed Hitler had it in for him and all Chapmans. As a child during the war he was bombed out more than once (Cator St, Shenley Rd and Therapia Rd) and several other Chapmans (Aunts and uncles) were also bombed out of Peckham and ED.

[b19jim08]

Hi Ianj, I went on the website you posted, www.flyingbombsandrockets.com and would like to thank you. My great uncle, Patrick Harris has often told us about things that happened during the war, like being blown into an air raid shelter by the shock wave of a V1 on the corner of Albany Road/Walworth Road. The shelter was on the corner of Crown Street and Hollington street. I looked on the Camberwell SE5 link and saw a train on its side... That kept my uncle and his family in coal for months as it was a coal freight train and everyone was taking as much as they could carry, way before the dust had even settled! Another incident he remembers is after a particlular nasty raid, what was at first thought to be a bomb about to land on the roof of the shelter, luckilly turned out to be the empty crate dropped by the bombers after the bombs had been dropped! Does anyone else remember any of these incidents?

[Sandperson]

My father-in-law found an incendiary in the back garden in Forest Hill just last week. Had the bomb squad in and everything.

I have to agree with Macroban on the accuracy of V-1s. The Germans were, at best, able to point the bomb in the right direction and set an analogue timer correctly (basically a counter attached to a small propeller on the nose of the bomb which, when it reached a set amount of revolutions, shut down the pulse jet engine and set the flaps for the bomb to dive). The whole process was a bit hit and miss, Hitler wasn't interested in strategic bombing, certainly not by the time the V-1s came properly online, he wanted to impart terror. Hence the designation Vergeltungswaffe (Vengence Weapon).