Card scam alert !!

[spark67]

Last night (wednesday) my partner and i were coming home from town in black cab and stopped at the Barclays bank on Lordship lane to get cash for the cab. My partner used his card, but it appeared to get stuck and there was a clicking noise. then the machine flashed an out of order sign and his card wasn't returned.

He phoned the bank this morning and they told him ?600 was taken from his account just after the time we left the machine. they said by what he described that it appeared some one had used something called a "Lebanese Loop". After you have entered your pin the machine will tell you your cash is being counted but no money comes out, then you find your card appears stuck and wont come out, the loop traps your card, the clicking noise is a classic sign. the final insult is that a small camera records the pin. The bank said someone would have been watching until we went then removed the device and used the card then. My partner banks with Santander & they said it seems quite common with Barclays cashpoints for some reason. luckily the bank refunded his money..its annoying to think that some *@*$ out there got away with ?600 scott free !

[DJKillaQueen]

That's useful to know, so that others can look out for it, and obviously call the Police rather than walk away from the machine. At least your bank knew right away what had happened and were happy to refund the money.

[EDmummy]

What a terrible thing! Which ATM did he use, the new one, the one to the right of the door or the one at the end of the building? Just wondering if one of them is more susceptible than the others.

[oilworker]

How can you tell by looking at the cash machine if it has one of these things fitted - is there something sticking out from the slot where the card is inserted or is it less obvious than that???

[giggirl]

These things have been around for a long time and have been very widely reported on.

The only thing that prevents you from scams at a cashpoint machine is by covering one hand with the other when you enter your PIN. Always, every time, no exceptions: whether you are on your own or with somebody, whether there is a queue behind you at the ATM or whether there is tumbleweed blowing up and down Lordship Lane. Nobody can touch your money without your PIN; shield your hand as you enter your PIN, every time.

[Ladygooner]

Good advice giggirl - will defintely do that in future

[SCSB79]

I often give the plastic casing above the keypad a little shake before using a cash point as this is where they hide the cameras I believe.

Not yet had any luck finding one, but a guy in my office did and then got jumped by two blokes when he took the camera to hand in to the police.

As giggirl says though, ALWAYS cover your PIN. Without it, I don't think anything can ever be done to you??

[sambobia]

I once saw one of these ATM recording devices, shortly after it was discovered. It was very well disguised -- I would never have realized it was there.

Comprised a grey piece of plastic which fits across the top of the ATM. In the centre was a minute hole, behind which was a camera connected to a mobile phone, presumably sending pin nos to the criminal who installed it. Amazing piece of kit, really.

[DJKillaQueen]

There are some pics of a Lebanese Loop and some other cash machines skimmers on this webpage (you have to scroll down halfway)...

ATM skimming scams

[The Minkey]

Seems appropriate to also put out a warning that people should count the cash that comes out the machine. I've always assumed it will be correct and haven't always checked it, but last week I withdrew ?100 from an HSBC cashpoint and found only ?80 had come out. A quick investigation revealed a note stuck in the machine - luckily there was just enough protruding to get grip on it and pull the rest of it through.

[sillywoman]

Ok, I know this is a silly question and I'm going to sound like an absolute babe-in-the-woods, but go gently on me. I have always wondered; should I cover my pin with my hand in shops when using the pin machine? It seems a little excessive, but is it generally good practice - or too extreme?

[EDmummy]

Yes, sillywoman. There have been cases where cameras are concealed in the ceilings of shops.

[Sue]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are some pics of a Lebanese Loop and some

> other cash machines skimmers on this webpage (you

> have to scroll down halfway)...

>

> ATM skimming scams

xxxxxxx

Bloody hell, this website looks like a "how to" guide for scammers :-S

[DJKillaQueen]

Indeed it does..but there are few things on there that I'd have never even thought of being skimmers...like putting false covers over the slot...

I tend to use the same two or three cash points and would hope I'd notice if something was different but it helps to know what the crooks are capable of as well.

[oilworker]

I use Barclays Internet Banking using the pin-sentry device - does this mean that if they know my pin code they can clone my bank card and then they can access my Barclays account online using any pin sentry machine?????

[ianr]

>How can you tell by looking at the cash machine if it has one of these things fitted - is there something sticking out from

>the slot where the card is inserted or is it less obvious than that???

It's like apiece of plastic tape, stuck inside the slot. But here has to be something there, to enable the thief to recover the device, along with your captured card. Some sites recommend feeling along the slot for two small prongs enabling them to do that. Other sites mention gluing instead, in which case the join might actually be just within the slot. I think I'd additionally, in the absence of anything better, at least give my card a good waggle across the slot, pressing it along the top and lower edges, just to see if there seemed to be anything there.

This particular device does look as if it gives a better opportunity than most to catch the perps, as they can only capture one card at a time, and so will very likely be lurking in the area (if I'm wrong in this, please say), maybe in a car with a wifi laptop. So If I got the telltale sign -- the ATM's repeated mechanical attempts to 'swallow' the card -- I think I'd phone 999 immediately, tell the operator it was a Lebanese Loop scam with the likelihood that the perps would be trying to recover my card as soon as I'd left, and suggesting that if they wanted to do some discreet observation for the pick-up, to phone me back once they were in position.

One web page mentioned that, instead of cameras, some of these scammers use a 'helpful bystander' who'll advise you that you to re-enter your PIN a couple of times, in order just to note the number. So beware them too, and if you're playing along, enter a wrong number.

[giggirl]

Guys - if you use a skimmed cashpoint and your card is captured then the thieves can do absolutely nothing whatsoever with your card without the PIN number. It's just a lump of plastic - nothing more.

Use one hand to cover the other as you enter your PIN - every time - no exceptions whatsoever. This needs to become second nature to everyone.

[Sue]

Sorry to be so dim :-$ but what direction/s should you be shielding the PIN from, and how can you hold your other hand to cover all bases?

[giggirl]

Personally Sue, I hold my hand tightly over all the keys at all times. I look at the keyboard and mentally establish where the first number of my PIN is on the keypad, then hold my keying hand on top ready to go, then place my other hand on top and start keying. It might take some getting used to but needs must. If you loose the plot then just take both hands away from the keypad, mentally note where your next number is, and then go back again. It becomes second nature very quickly. Sometimes I will only type the first 2 digits of my PIN using this technique then, even if you're being filmed or someone behind is trying to clock your number, they'll only get the last 2 digits - which is useless.

The other keying technique I use is not to key in with one outstretched digit, but rather to ball up your hand into a downward facing fist and key using the back of the nail. It's impossible for an onlooker or camera to see what numbers you are keying. Again, it takes some getting used to but it becomes second nature.

Most of the devices fitted to ATMs are very clever and you won't spot them. Therefore the only way to protect yourself at all times is to protect your PIN.

Given the choice, always choose an ATM machine in a bank's lobby. Most criminals wouldn't have the nerve to skim a machine inside a bank.

[Bellerophon]

EDmummy Wrote:

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> Yes, sillywoman. There have been cases where

> cameras are concealed in the ceilings of shops.

A certain local Petrol Station with Tamil connections allegedly....ahem...

I still always look up and wave, even though now paying with folding

[jadal]

If a card is skimmed or stolen etc then if the crook is quick of the mark or even has a mobile with internet capability to hand then they are able to make online purchases without the need for your pin number. This has happened to me before when my card was cloned.

[HAL9000]

giggirl Wrote:

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> the thieves can do absolutely nothing whatsoever

> with your card without the PIN number.

There are now stick-on, push-through keypads that capture the PIN and relay it to the scammer - so hiding key presses is no longer an infallible defence.

[alica]

Lebanese loop?! Have been in Middle East, but had never experienced any threat to my wallet... Yet I was attacked outside Barclays bank on Lordship lane by some junkies ( as established by police) in a broad daylight...I wonder do people in Beirut call any ATM failure ( which is worldwide spread!)as an "English loop"?!

[spark67]

It was the cashpoint on the corner of the bank by Ashbourne, the bank did say the best way to defeat this sort of device is to shield your pin number from above with your hand.

It also turned a few days later that they tried to use it in a tescos and for a bit of online shopping. Hope they enjoyed their free ?600 pound spree before going back to their miserable lives.