Grandparents helping with grandchildren.

[ClareC]

What is the norm?

I realise most people don't live near their parents these days but I wonder what is usual in terms of help.

I have a couple of friend's who have mentioned that their parents do any necessary getting up in the night when they visit or are being visited.

Neither mine or my partners parents have ever offered to do this (although mine did have our daughter overnight once), they don't even change nappies!?!?! That said, both sets dote on our daughter and love seeing her, just don't seem to do anything with her that helps us at all, although would always babysit if asked.

Am I expecting to much to think a bit of unasked for help (for us) is the norm and would be nice?

It's not a problem as we are pretty self sufficient in that we don't have family nearby so are used to relyig on ourselves, just feeling a bit resentful at the moment that grandparental visiting / visits seem to mean more rather than less work for us :-(

[littleEDfamily]

My side of the family, unfortunately doesn't live in this country, but we are Portuguese on one side, and there, the norm is for grandparents (and the rest of the family) to be fully involved. No problem ditching kids with family and taking off for a holiday (my parents left me and my sister with grandparents for up to 5 weeks when we are a baby and pre-schooler). My sister and aunt, if visiting, will do the 'host's' washing, put kids to bed, get up with them and give them breakfast, tell them off etc etc. Rather than being a favour, it's insulting if the other party doesn't expect you to get involved.

However, my husband's side, are English, and dare I say the attitude here is 'all the enjoyment, none of the work'. I mean they will read the kids stories, and generally amuse them (and are generally very lovely grandparents) but when it comes to the less than glamourous jobs, it's straight back to mum and dad. I remember when my elder daughter was young just wanting to scream and them and say "Can't you see I need some help here!! She doesn't need presents, can you rather not change a nappy or tidy up her room for me!!".

I do think it can be a bit of a cultural thing (although I have heard of an English grandfather who comes around and does his daughter's ironing - can we clone him??? And I am sure there are many other english grandparents who are 'hands on').

So, I know totally what you mean, ClareC, grandparents visits can mean catering combined with normal childcare, rather than a break, and I don't think we are alone in this experience.

[Lochie]

I wonder if maybe they don't want to tread on toes? I used to not have such a good relationship with my mother in law - we are both very territorial. Now that my MIL knows the boundaries (she used to be very overbearing) she asks if its ok to change nappies, make up bottles etc....which I welcome whole heartedly now that we get on ok these days.

In general though both sets of parents are very helpful particularly my own mother who is very hands on. I think it does depend on how often you see the grand parents as well?

If I were you I would drop some very unsubtle hints and if for example they come to stay for a weekend I would ask if they'd mind babysitting for part of that time and not wait for a response!

[nylonmeals]

This post made me laugh with recognition.

Both my parents live in London and I had sort of assumed that my mum in particular would really want to hands on with the care of my baby, her only grandson. Nothing could be further from the truth. While she 100% loves her grandson and enjoys coming and playing with him she absolutely does not want to do anything like childcare when I am back at work.

I seem to be surrounded by friends whose mothers are desperate to come and do a day a week (or more) looking after their grandchild, some I know travel for serious distances as well.

Not mine.

I'd like her to be more hands on, selfishly it would be amazing if she could do a day a week of childcare but it's not going to happen. I think that my mum is part of the new generation of incredibly active grannies - she has a better social life than we do and is on countless committees and groups and just doesn't have the time or energy I think to look after a 10 month old.

It's funny what you expect will happen once the baby arrives isn't usually what happens.

Clare, maybe things will change when your little one gets older - it might be easier for grandparents to feel more actively involved then?

[Moos]

I don't think it's an English thing ( ! ) just an individual thing. Some people are just more perceptive and inclined to practical help than others. My mother is amazing, cannot do too much for her grandchildren, and always insists on giving me and my husband a heavenly joint lie-in when we stay with her - a rare treat. My parents-in-law, though loving and great with stories, playing etc. never offer to get up or do anything much by way of practical help, preferring to follow me around to take part in bathtime, bedtime etc. without doing it for me. I've found a polite request to do a small and specific job, followed by lots of thanks, goes down well.

[womanofdulwich]

I think it is very personal too. I also think sometimes there is a favourite age for grandparents too. I had no help for the frist years, but once they were out of nappies then the grandparents would take them off all day or for a weekend once a year. they would read to them etc. Grandparents are traditionally to spoil grandchildren- or at least do nice things whilst you do the more basic stuff. CHildren need/ want attention and even if they read stories that is all still good. my father in law never even held either of his grandsons or read them a story- partly because he had worked away when he had his own children and was genuinely uncomfortable with the whole thing. Loved them but had no inclination/ confidence to held them, sad isn't it?

[littleEDfamily]

Ha! Knew the English comment might not go down too well, hence my qualification that it does depend on the individual. Nonetheless I do stand by my belief that, generally speaking, cultural factors do influence how grandparents see their role. A Chinese friend of mine's mother was her first child's full time carer when mum went back to work, despite living in a different city (she would fly up on a Sunday night and spend the week there, flying back on Friday night). Did all the housework too...

I do think less hands-on is preferable to overbearing and interfering (not to say you have to be hands on to be overbearing and interfering), and I regularly thank my lucky stars we don't have any of those types of grandies to deal with. That said I am still very bitter about having had to get up ON MY WEDDING NIGHT to look after my 1 year old while grandma slept ...... errrrr.......

[ClareC]

I'm glad I am not alone in this! Thought maybe I was being irrational, emotional or /and hormonal due to lack of sleep (baby just cut first tooth and has had a cold / chesty cough for what feels like months), pregnancy and a recent grandparental visit!! They are lovely people and do think the world of our daughter......but!!

nylonmeals, your post sounds very familiar! My mum is exactly the same, fortunately I knew what to expect, she would never commit to a set day a week for my sister (who lives near her) but was happy to be "emergency nana" ie look after kids when ill and not allowed to nursery, provided of coure she didn't have plans that day. I am still at home with number one and given my parents are 30 miles away (yep not far really but she doesnt like driving in London?!?!) I don't think this arrangement will extend to us and apply when I do eventally go back to work.

littleEDfamily, I agree with you about the cultural aspect to it all, certain cultures certainly do seem to have more of a "wider family" involvement than others.

Also agree with Moos, I am sure there are involved/not so involved in every culture. Moos, can your mother adopt me please ;-)

Lochie, the not wanting to tread on toes aspect to it all is a good point, it had crossed my mind too - unsubtle hints routesounds a plan!

Womanof dulwich, I will keep my fingers crossed it is an age thing! You never know :-)

I feel mean feeling this way, both sets are extremely generous in many ways, it would just be nice if house guests all week meant childfree time to do all those jobs you never get round to doing rather than more mouths to feed, more cooking and clearing up to do and yet more washing and ironing! Not to mention that you can't go to bed at 9pm if you fancy it (and you have not had a full nights sleep in weeks) because your "being social" and anything earlier than 11ish feels rude!

[charlottep]

my family is Portuguese too and my parents are extremely hands-on with our kids, my mother has regularly got up at night to settle them, changes nappies, cooks, feeds, etc, and often encourages us to leave the children with her so that we can 'invest in our marriage' as she puts it! They would be offended if they weren't allowed this level of involvement (obviously, the don't get much resistance from us either) Culturally, this is generally the norm in Portugal and i see what littleEDfamily is saying re cultural factors probably influencing how grandparents see their roles. Although, having said that, i'm not sure that in Portugal this will survive our generation as they become grandparents, simply because they are more independent from the 'family' than past generations IMO.

My mother-in-law on the other hand will tell me a nappy needs changing, or that one of the children must be hungry / tired, etc, but is a general bystander to the less glam tasks. She tells me that she's done her time and has no interest in repeating the experience! Don't blame her really, despite my Portuguese heritage, i imagine i'll be more like her.

[crystal7]

ClareC this post made me smile. I find it quite hard work having my inlaws to stay- extra washing cooking and having to sit up and socialise! And they have never offered to change a nappy or do anything other than light entertainment...maybe they don't want to tread on our toes? We don't see them much so E doesn't really know them anyway. My parents are much more hands on but I had to keep 'offering' nappy changes and babysitting duties and now they do the offering. We only see them once a month or so which has probably got something to do with it. I don't really mind as we are very self sufficient being used to managing without ad hoc childcare. Boths sets of granparents are very busy too, groups, comittees etc and my parents work full time and will do for a while. I also appreciate that they (my parents that is!) don't try and interfere or offer unwanted advice about parenting/childrearing which some of my friends inlaws/ parents do!

[sb]

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[Pugwash]

As a grandmother of 2 and step grandmother of 4, my role with my daughter and step daughter has been different.

My daughter had her first child almost 12 years ago, at that time I was working Mon- Weds only and offered to care for my g/daughter one day a week. My daughter obtained a one day a week job with Lewisham Council as a Drop in Centre worker for people with learning difficulties. I would go to her flat in Crystal Palace in the morning and care for baby

until 6 pm. As baby got older, I collected her and came back to Dulwich for the day. When she was 2.5 years she was enrolled in a part time nursery to get her used to other children.

I remember only to well how fatigued you get with interrupted nights and have always offered to both daughter and step daughter, my services if they wanted a decent night sleep or to kip during the day. Step daughter in Essex, did not want help with any of her kids (1 year - 16 years) in the early stages, but now that they are older, the 9.13.16 year old have stayed with us for a few nights to give their parents a break.

I have no problem with getting up in the night to the kids, changing nappies etc, bottle feeding, laundry etc. I frequently baby sit - but daughter always checks first if I am free and does not always assume I will drop everything. During the October half term we took her 11 year old and 6 year old away for 4 nights.

Now I am working full time, I check with my daughter if she needs me during the holiday times to childmind ( she has gone back to college to study for a professional qualification) and I arrange time off to help her.

I am not naturally good with children, especially with boisterous games etc, but do cooking and art with the kids and take them out and about. I would never charge for caring for my granchildren, but I am not always on tap for care. Obviously try to help out in an emergency. Like most parents, I want my grown up kids to be happy as this reflects on the grandchildren.

My mother and father in law only baby sat once in 10 years, they lived nearer than my mum who loved having her grandaughters to stay (or to come here to care for them)

[snowboarder]

Gah you are all describing my weekend perfectly. In laws here for what seems like a fully catered holiday, yep they are well meaning and bring presents and generally get little sb over excited (and seem oblivious to the need for a nap or to be a bit quiet in the evening when he is asleep). BUT I feel like I've just been catering and washing up constantly - they dont want to eat an early lunch with little one so do breakfast, baby lunch, grown up lunch, baby supper, grown up dinner...repeat..argh......

At least when baby 2 comes along we won;t have a spare room any longer....(hehe evil laugh)

My parents much better but they would never get up in the night unless I asked them to. Or nappy change. But I don't mind asking them, so easier.

[amydown]

Tough one. I agree with couple of posts above that culture does play a role in this. My parents (Korean) would indeed be offended if I stopped them from doing anything. When I stayed out there for 1 month when the baby was 3m old, my Dad took the baby from me every morning from 4am which was an absolute godsend!!!! The only thing I had to do during the entire 1 month was to offer my breast at feeding times.

My mother-in-law is very loving but I get the feeling she doesn't want to intefere with my way of doing things and therefore tends to be quite cautious around me I think. In a way, I would actually feel uncomfortable if she started doing my laundry, cooking, changing nappies and everything but a little bit more hands-on help would be nice..

Tough one.

[????]

Just an observation but I think that 'In-laws' to the mum(s) are possibly a bit more wary of seeing as intervening(intefering) with how their daughter-in-laws are parenting/babying, it's quite a sensitive area....looks on here for instance that quite a lot of you ladies are saying my parents are great (not all) but inlaws less hands on, I don't think that's entirely coincidental?

[new mother]

I'm very lucky with my parents who would get up night after night for my children. I thought this was totally normal when my siblings had children and assumed this would happen automatically - it's their gchildren after all - till I met my parents-in-law and realised they do/did nothing unless "it suited them" for their gchildren.

I'm afraid the result is that my ch are much closer to my parents than their other grandparents, becuase they know they would go to the ends of the earth for them. Grandparents who look after ch "when they have no ther plans" have weird priorities in my view and are failing in a fundamental instinctive aspect of life. They lose out in the long run though so poor them.

[Belle]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just an observation but I think that 'In-laws' to

> the mum(s) are possibly a bit more wary of seeing

> as intervening(intefering) with how their

> daughter-in-laws are parenting/babying, it's quite

> a sensitive area....looks on here for instance

> that quite a lot of you ladies are saying my

> parents are great (not all) but inlaws less hands

> on, I don't think that's entirely coincidental?

Yes, think there's definitely something in that. Must be harder for a mother in law to know how to help in a way. and I know I feel fine about telling my mum what needs done - which is obviously harder with someone who you're not related to.

Pugwash - great post - what you describe is I think what we would all wish for in a grandparent - quite right that you shouldn't have to be 'on tap', but equally good to know the help is there.

[Keef]

I think quids is spot on. We're very lucky, as both sets of parents help us with child care, so our daughter sees a lot of them. Nappies are changed, and meals prepared. We've yet to spend a night away from babba though, and she's 18 months now.

[Ruth_Baldock]

`it's the other way round for me! My MIL does EVERYTHING for baby baldock when she sees him- nappies, homemade lunches, getting him to sleep, entertainment, everything. She looks after him 2x a week when I'm at work, has had him overnight, frequently babysits- ahh, heaven. Same with FIL, they both dote on baby baldock (he's the first grand baby)

My mum? Not so much. I was ill recently and went to hers for some help- HA! I got a lot of 'Ruuuuuuuth! The baby is cryyyyiiiing' when I was upstairs vomiting, and lots of 'he's done a poo/why is he crying/he's about to crawl out of the door'. I love my Mum but bloody hell...

[ClareC]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just an observation but I think that 'In-laws' to

> the mum(s) are possibly a bit more wary of seeing

> as intervening(intefering) with how their

> daughter-in-laws are parenting/babying, it's quite

> a sensitive area....looks on here for instance

> that quite a lot of you ladies are saying my

> parents are great (not all) but inlaws less hands

> on, I don't think that's entirely coincidental?

Totally agree with this, and have thought this may be the case.

It's an awkward one because I don't feel comfortable asking them to do things, but can see they may feel uncomfortable "taking over".

The ideal in my mind is for them to offer which gives me an opportunity to take them up on their offer or not as the case may be.

sb - From now on I am taking a leaf from your book! Will stock the fridge with beer / wine and go to bed :-)

Pugwash - you seem to have the perfect balance :-)

Snowboarder.... I feel for you! Love the new baby no spare bed theory :-) I am pregnant with number 2 too, MIL questioned what we would do about a bedroom for the baby if it's a boy (which it is) and they (new baby and daughter) can't share - I was perplexed, it's 4 bedroom house after all ?!??! Currently the two "spare" rooms are used as a study and guest bedroom. Clearly the guest bedroom will go!!!! Partner works from home so a study is non negotiable :-)

[KatsuQueen]

All sounds so familiar, I'm glad I'm not alone! When my parents come to stay, they cook meals and look after MiniKatsu in the morning so I can have a lie-in. My father-in-law always wants to have a drink about six but he wants us all to join in. 6 o'clock is the "desperate" hour in our house when we are trying to do the whole eat-bath-bed routine without meltdown. And my father-in-law wanders around saying, "oh shall I open the so-and-so wine? What are we having for dinner, how about that xxx from xxx?" But he won't open it and drink it with just my mother-in-law. (I guess because he thinks it's rude?)

The last time they visited, I just hissed at MrKatsu, " for god's sake just open the bloody wine and drink it, or pretend to drink it with him before I go crazy and scream......"

[Pickle]

This is such a big issue in our household!

On the rare occasion that my in-laws come and stay (these occasions are getting less and less as time goes by, it's safe to say our relationship isn't a good one) they are a complete pain in the backside.

They are incapable of making even a simple cup of tea, always go out for lunch towards the end of the kid's naptime (to the Village, because it's much nicer down there, would you not consider moving there? It feels MUCH safter doesn't it? The restaurants are so much nicer, etc etc etc....), arrive back at the house around 4:30pm then moan that they haven't had time to see the kids before I "insist" on giving them tea and putting them to bed.

In the evenings they don't like having the TV on, it's much nicer to sit and chat... apparently. Sure, if you've got things to talk about and "chat" doesn't mean "argue strongly about opinions on topics which you have no knowledge".

Grrrrr. Thankfully the last two times it's been time for visits Mr Pickle has kindly taken the kids to see them in Edinburgh, leaving me to enjoy life without inlaws (as well as wonderful time without children - as much as I love them a couple of days without them is heaven!).

I'm off to visit my folks in NZ next week. My Dad is (bless him) babysitting for a whole day while my Mum, sister and I go for a pampering session, lunch and shopping - he has no idea what he's signed up for, but is very excited. Being a typical late 50's kiwi male he can't even boil an egg, but I'm sure the kids will do fine on icecream, sweets and crisps for the day, and thankfully they can both use the toilet now so no need for nappy changes.

Both of my parents are great at taking the kids out, doing fun things with them, and just generally being helpful.

I think a lot of it is to do with the Mother-in-law relationship that so many of us seem to have, and having spent 8 yeras attempting to forge a relationship with mine I've now almost given up. A shame really, but life is to short!

[ClareC]

Ruth, your MIL sounds AMAZING :-)

Your mum made me chuckle though, and sounded familiar!! I went to my parents last Sunday for lunch. I spent the whole day chasing baby 'I' who loved the fact that doors were constantly left open and that Nana and Grandad's house has lots of breakables in easy reach, drinks easily reached etc. Plus her cousins (aged 3 and 5) were there and although brilliant with her, and gentle, do need to be watched. In addition to which Nana's dog isn't 100% happy with children.

My mum commented the next day that I hadn't been very nice to her ..... not helping her with the lunch preparation / clear up!! I cleared the table, not entirely sure how I was supposed to do much more than that in the circumstances but there you go!!

KatsuQueen your post made me laugh, I think 6pm is definitely drink start cooking dinner time in grandparent world :-) My mum comments on how she doesnt know how we can eat so late ........... err no choice!! I also know both sides get twitchy at how late we cook dinner (once I in bed asleep) and have commented they eat far earlier at home!!

[ClareC]

Didn't see your post prior to posting mine Pickle, have a fantastic trip:-)

[The Nappy Lady]

Hmmmm, I'm really lucky with my MIL (and her husband) she is a wonderful lady, happy to help out, and generally very supportive. Last time my childminder was on holiday she drove up to pick little C (then about 20 months) up and took her back to Kent with her for 2 nights, then brought her back to me later in the week. She's always been good about having the children, and when O was 4 she had her for an entire week so we could go to Spain and have a 'proper' holiday (though I was about 8 months pregnant, so not partying much! They then flew out to Spain with O to join us for the 2nd week, and because she is naturally an early riser she was always happy to be up with O in the mornings. Little things can make such a big difference.

My own Mum is 20 years older than my MIL, and at 81 finds it hard to help as much as she would like to. I know it frustrates her, and at times I get frustrated that she doesn't seem to notice simple ways to help me any more (partly I guess because I remember just how dynamic she was not so long ago). I know that any lack of help now is down to her age rather than lack of willingness. When I ask she will always do her best, but sometimes I am too proud (stupid and stubborn) to actually say, "please can you do X". I know she looks at what my MIL does to help and feels sad that she can't do the same any more, sometimes I wish I'd got on with having the children sooner so she could have been more involved. The other thing I find with my Mum is that she has forgotten what it is like to have little children around to a certain extent as there really aren't any other toddlers in the family now, and I think this is probably true of a lot of Grandparents, they just don't remember what it is like trying to cope with a young family.

I am very lucky, because I also have a wonderful Sister who is 10 years older and adores my girls (as she only had boys herself) she are surrogate daughters to her really, and a doting Godmother, who visits very regularly. Not to mention a great support network amongst our neighbours and other school Mum's.

It is amazing what a difference it can make just having someone you can leave the children with for 5 minutes whilst you dash off for that loaf of bread you forgot, or to make you a cup of tea and a 10 minute chat when you've had a really bad day.

I think it is incredibly hard these days when families are often so far apart, we are raising children without the traditional network of family around us to provide the support we all need. What I have found though, is that it is a very common problem in London, and if you are lucky you will hopefully be able to develop what we tend to call a 'London family' - local friends and neighbours who will provide at least some of that support. We had a head start because we have lived in this house for 15 years now, so were well established before the girls came along, but I think it is something that works really well, and if your children do get in at the local school this can really help. Of course you don't 'click' with everyone you meet, but if you can find a couple of families close by that you connect with it can make a big difference. We have one family over the road who also have 2 girls and the children do sleepovers sometimes at weekends, so we'll have their girls one weekend, overnight and through until midday the next day, and then they will have ours the next. We are just about getting to the point where little C will be able to be included, so we really will be able to get back to having a full on lie in again when ours go to theirs...can't wait!

For those of you who really don't get any help or support I think you are amazing to cope, truly.