Peckham?s black hair salons - Channel 4 News

[ed_pete]

Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) tweeted at 0:00 pm on Thu, Mar 09, 2017:

Peckham?s black hair salons are known far and wide ? but they?re worried gentrification is moving them out of their home.

https://t.co/Q5o5dooo7g

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[Earl Aelfheah]

Interesting. I'm not sure of my view on this. As long as they're being given space in the new place at the same sort of rents, then I don't think any individual shop should be allowed to stand in the way of a redevelopment which benefits the wider community. That said, what are the chances they actually end up setting up business elsewhere / get moved out - pretty high I'd guess.

[titch juicy]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Interesting. I'm not sure of my view on this. As

> long as they're being given space in the new place

> at the same sort of rents, then I don't think any

> individual shop should be allowed to stand in the

> way of a redevelopment which benefits the wider

> community. That said, what are the chances they

> actually end up setting up business elsewhere /

> get moved out - pretty high I'd guess.

Pretty much agree with this. I'll be amazed if they do get offered that though.

[uncleglen]

My mum used to do it in our front room.....

[Otta]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Interesting. I'm not sure of my view on this. As

> long as they're being given space in the new place

> at the same sort of rents, then I don't think any

> individual shop should be allowed to stand in the

> way of a redevelopment which benefits the wider

> community. That said, what are the chances they

> actually end up setting up business elsewhere /

> get moved out - pretty high I'd guess.

If they were being offered the same sized units for the same rent, then fine. Suspect they won't be though.

Remember chatting to a guy in one of the guitar shops on Denmark Street, Soho a year or two back. He was saying they were all being promised their units for the same rent, but it actually turned out they'd lose half their space, and it was totally unworkable.

Different kind of business I know, but this made me think of that conversation.

[Jah Lush]

It's social cleansing. Nothing more nothing less. They don't want them there. Simple as that. Sadly, it happens a lot when places likes Peckham get gentrified. Most of those salons will go out of business.

[Jeremy]

Jah's right, it does stink of social cleansing. Whether they get the same sized units for the same price, is (IMO) beside the point. They want to stick all the hair and nail places all together, out of sight, and release the prime properties on Choumert Rd, Blenheim Grove, etc for new businesses paying higher rent.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Having started my London life working on Rye Lane in 2004 I find it very sad to see them being squeezed out like this. Was always part of the fabric of Rye Lane in my limited years of living down these parts.

[clockworkorange]

People- get real! Social cleansing my arse. How dramatic

The shops get moved to release land for development which will provide housing, new/better retail, an improved station, uplift to heritage assets and public realm improvements. Also chunky payments to CIL and S106 -

These shops have no more right to stay than any other. It just so happens they sit on a plot of land that is needed for redevelopment in the wider public interest.

They get new units round the corner.these are comparable if not better.

[KidKruger]

What Jah said.

Clockworkorange - lol !

[NewWave]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> What Jah said.

>

> Clockworkorange - lol !

Totally agree with above post!

[nxjen]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> It's social cleansing. Nothing more nothing less.

> They don't want them there. Simple as that. Sadly,

> it happens a lot when places likes Peckham get

> gentrified. Most of those salons will go out of

> business.

I have mixed feelings on this. Depending on the rent being sought, it is unlikely the salons will go out of business as they meet a huge demand which will still be there. If the salons being relocated were catering for European hair, would there be the same sense of outrage?

[Seabag]

If you take the 'Peckham/black' out of the title, then I'm not sure there'd even be a thread on the subject.

'Hair salons moved for re-development' doesn't have the same ring to it

Business is business, location or colour isn't a transactional consideration. If a business makes money, and subsequently shifts location within its customer reach, then it has a chance of surviving.

There's a business rate review, which accounts for about half of the rent value coming very soon. And this is happening at the top of a London wide peak in values of commercial property, of which the review is based on. Elsewhere in the values are down, rates are less.

London, inc Peckham and all its traders, will be feel the increase.

[mynamehere]

The issue isn't only one thing and that things particular "value" but all of it and how regeneration is undertaken

http://www.itsnicethat.com/news/creative-tensions-report-london-regeneration-culture-070317

Eileen Conn's group Peckham Vision mostly get's it right and is one of the most effective voices for SE15.

http://www.itsnicethat.com/news/creative-tensions-report-london-regeneration-culture-070317

[JoeLeg]

Things change, times change, areas change.

My mum moved into East Dulwich in the 1960's, and she's been here ever since. For a long time she expressed amazement that Peckham never picked up on what these days we call gentrification. But it's finally arrived. Money talks.

I'd agree that it's a form of social cleansing, one that's been going on at various times over the decades and has affected all ethnic groups. Soho? Spitalfields? The East End? Portobello? Even places like Bromley and Orpington are seeing changes.

Maybe there should be a law against it, but there isn't. And there never was. I'm sad to see Peckham go the way it is, but I think it's now inevitable.

[Louisa]

Peckham has undergone change before and will undergo change again. Highs and lows in a neighbourhoods social/economic status aren't really news. In the mid 90's the threat of the channel tunnel rail link saw various chains ditch Rye Lane and property values collapse. A change of heart on that issue came and went, and most of the salons and butchers/fishmongers you see in Peckham today didn't arrive until the early to mid 90's when leases could be snapped up at bargain basement prices. At least these businesses are being offered an alternative venue, often times small businesses are just told to get on with it.

Louisa.

[Siduhe]

There was a good article in the FT recently which explained some of the complexities - I think I can post an open link here that anyone can read:

https://www.ft.com/content/90c2e798-f305-11e6-8758-6876151821a6?accessToken=zwAAAVq33FZ4kdOQwueY8wUR5tOHWGh2FRghpg.MEYCIQCnffrGOcwjSlhyk4KhaDFgqw2k_snJgEqk2XJB3ufW2gIhAOXFxycBMyovoo63bA-EeOcbu97ERhxVv6hWeFdAUYFv&sharetype=gift

I have absolutely no doubt that one of the drivers for the move is that the current hair salons don't fit nicely into the current vision for a regenerated Rye Lane and I understand why those working in the salons are worried it will hurt their business.

[Nigello]

Had the shops been, say, general stores or haberdashery shops or workaday cafes or locksmiths or pie and mash places and were not linked to a minority, C4 would not have been interested in the slightest. It suits their audience and their outlook.

That is not to say that I have no sympathy for anyone forced to move, but I agree that if we accept that Peckham (or anywhere) has changed a lot then why should it not change some more?

I look forward to a cleaner and greener Rye Lane and a scrubbed-up rail station. It's pretty grim in parts right now. Keep Khan's mall, Bussey etc, Asda, the butcher's shops and individual greengroceries et all, plus the chains and the cafes, but just make it look less like Quatermass (especially of a weekend morning).

[DuncanW]

The assertion that people only take notice of this because the hair salons in question are black businesses doesn't withstand much scrutiny.

Media attention has also recently been given to:

Potential redevelopment of and by Franks and the Bussey Building - whose main demographic is white and middle class

Slightly further afield: Berwick Street Market - whose traders and are typically white and working class

That said - change happens and businesses who rent their premises don't have an inalienable right to continue doing so on the same terms - as the change happens around them

[titch juicy]

I think people aren't taking into account, or understanding the community aspect of this. It's not just hair salons being moved. These hair salons in their way are like the Turkish meeting houses. Places for members of the community to gather for issues to be discussed, for parties to take place. I've seen countless late night parties happening in the salons around the station.

Saying there wouldn't be the same outrage if they were European hair salons is missing the point.

Plus, they are a vital part of what makes Peckham Rye great. It adds to the undoubted colour and vibrancy of Rye Lane. Along with the Sunday worship that goes on and the various fantastic grocers, butchers and fishmongers.

Imagine for a moment that the whole situation was flipped on it's head and that a wealthy African demographic had started to move en masse into East Dulwich and Lordship Lane wasn't how they desired it. How would you feel if they started getting rid of William Rose and Moxons and M&S and Franklins etc. and replaced them with black hair salons, African grocers and butchers and the like.

There would be incredible gnashing, wailing and tantrums.

[titch juicy]

And saying that demographics change and areas change accordingly and always have done in London is such a cheap, cop-out answer.

[Louisa]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> And saying that demographics change and areas

> change accordingly and always have done in London

> is such a cheap, cop-out answer.

But Peckham has changed more than once in my lifetime, and will continue to do so. And your argument about what if wealthy Africans moved to ED and transformed the area doesn't stack up. Peckham was predominantly white working class in my youth and many of the shops moved away as the demographic changed in the neighbourhood. So you could argue that those people were displaced using your argument? The truth was, those people moved onto new things and the Afro-Caribbean community took over shops which otherwise would have been derelict and empty, and those shops have served that community of Peckham for a good 25 years plus now. This new wave of hipsters or arty types who've moved to Peckham are taking on abandoned buildings and breathing life into them too. The council are just taking advantage of the fact this new wave of demographic is younger and it's encouraging a nighttime economy in the area, and they want to spruce up the station to take advantage of this new reputation. The neighbourhoods of big cities do change, and with the greatest will in the world we can't stop that from happening, as much as some of us, bang on about it all the time on here (the G word btw in ED).

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Peckham (or anywhere) has changed a

> lot then why should it not change some more?

I'm all for embracing change. I agree that Rye Lane could certainly use some smartening up, and to be frank, I do not use the butchers, fishmongers, mobile phone shops, and afro beauty shops along there. I do use caf?s, bars, restaurants, delis, etc... so I'm not going to be hypocritical here and pretend the changes are unwelcome.

But I'm still not comfortable with the idea of moving all businesses of a certain type, for a certain ethnicity of customer, all into one place. Which is exactly what the "Peckham Palms" proposal is...

[titch juicy]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And saying that demographics change and areas

> > change accordingly and always have done in

> London

> > is such a cheap, cop-out answer.

>

>

> But Peckham has changed more than once in my

> lifetime, and will continue to do so. And your

> argument about what if wealthy Africans moved to

> ED and transformed the area doesn't stack up.

> Peckham was predominantly white working class in

> my youth and many of the shops moved away as the

> demographic changed in the neighbourhood. So you

> could argue that those people were displaced using

> your argument? The truth was, those people moved

> onto new things and the Afro-Caribbean community

> took over shops which otherwise would have been

> derelict and empty, and those shops have served

> that community of Peckham for a good 25 years plus

> now. This new wave of hipsters or arty types

> who've moved to Peckham are taking on abandoned

> buildings and breathing life into them too. The

> council are just taking advantage of the fact this

> new wave of demographic is younger and it's

> encouraging a nighttime economy in the area, and

> they want to spruce up the station to take

> advantage of this new reputation. The

> neighbourhoods of big cities do change, and with

> the greatest will in the world we can't stop that

> from happening, as much as some of us, bang on

> about it all the time on here (the G word btw in

> ED).

>

> Louisa.

That's a completely different example though Louisa. The units here aren't going to be derelict and empty, they have long established communities in and around them. That couldn't be more of an important distinction and i'm afraid you've completely glossed over the whole point by comparing the two.

If the units were lying derelict and empty we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

[Seabag]

I'm slightly cautious that the predominantly white middle classes are rubbing there chins about this, because it suits their arms length 'P.C' agenda. But be honest, most people really don't give a toss. It's about money and not some darker motive.

In some way those salons make Peckham feel more exotic/edgy, I wonder if it's partly that that drives the 'concern' over the move. I'm also cautious about emotive words like 'cleansing', because in reality it'll not lessen the mix of the community.

There's another hair shop in E.D that's moving because of development, but not a dickie bird of interest from people.

The owners is Irish, his rent will be increased, but who cares, it's just business, no?