Waitrose or M&S TYPE supermarket - do we want one on LL?

[Applespider]

No microwave here either...

I was given one of those 'microwave' hot waterbottles for Christmas by someone who couldn't believe people existed without them... But in the last few days, I've found several other 'standouts' against them.

[karter]

James thanks for that. It would be helpful for the forumites to know which section these properties are in and did this come up at the last ssba meeting?

[RosieH]

So James, it's probably on here somewhere, but this thread is 18 pages long, how do we stop this dastardly plan to open a new supermarket?

[plimsoul]

there are some really old fashioned opinions on this thread that make me laugh.

microwaves have their uses and are great for veg, reheating left overs etc... using far less electricity compared to electric hob or oven. of course you don't eat a lasagne heated in a microwave but for heating frozen veg it's obviously a winner and as nutritional as if steamed.

a ready meal that is good and leaves you wanting for more? well many M&S ones from the bistro range or their new 'posh pot noodles' or as they call them thai in a pot. there is a huge difference between ready mades out there, you can't compare a basics lasagne to the new taste the difference al forno one. the good ones cost more, that's the difference...and down that path lies a whole other argument.

i'd love an M&S for when i'm feeling lazy ... but i certainly don't miss having one locally.

[Keef]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> A nutritionist eh? well let's not question that

> source - someone who has spent as many years as a

> nutritionist, and has to gain all those

> qualifications... oh hang on

And the qualifications that you have to say otherwise?

[Jeremy]

Pointless conversation, done to death. The usual suspects won't budge an inch!

[Keef]

Yeah, okay smart arse. ;-)

[zeban]

Interesting article in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/24/shoppers-supermarkets-local-shops

[HelBel65]

This week I'm moving from Crouch End to East Dulwich. One of the things I will miss, and feel that LL lacks, is a high end supermarket. Crouch End saw a small Waitrose open just over a year ago - similar to Tesco Metro/Sainsburys Local, there are only 2 so far in London I think. All the usual high quality fresh produce you'd expect from Waitrose, with its share of ready meals of course, but which supermarket doesn't sell those? LL seems exactly the sort of neighbourhood in which one of these would thrive. None of the independent shops in Crouch End have suffered, from what I can see. Incidentally there is an M+S Food about 200 yards away, and somehow there seems room for everybody!

[DulwichFox]

HelBel65 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This week I'm moving from Crouch End to East

> Dulwich. One of the things I will miss, and feel

> that LL lacks, is a high end supermarket. Crouch

> End saw a small Waitrose open just over a year ago

> - similar to Tesco Metro/Sainsburys Local, there

> are only 2 so far in London I think. All the usual

> high quality fresh produce you'd expect from

> Waitrose, with its share of ready meals of course,

> but which supermarket doesn't sell those? LL seems

> exactly the sort of neighbourhood in which one of

> these would thrive. None of the independent shops

> in Crouch End have suffered, from what I can see.

> Incidentally there is an M+S Food about 200 yards

> away, and somehow there seems room for everybody!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fears were this week raised over spiralling rents and the decline of traditional shopping in Crouch End Broadway after a major electrical store closed down.

Traders and politicians are concerned that the prominent shopfront opposite the town hall vacated this week by Powerhouse could be taken over by another coffee shop or restaurant.

"It's very sad. We are eating away at our traditional shops a problem hyped by the ability of coffee shops and restaurants to pay totally unrealistic rents.".

"It's reaching the point that only bigger stores or restaurants can afford the exorbitant rents," she said.

Waitrose

Article Here

[HelBel65]

I was gazing at that article in puzzlement until I realised it was 6 years old! It explains that Powerhouse closed because it wasn't making a profit and therefore couldn't pay the rates. That surely can't be blamed on supermarkets, coffee shops or estate agents. Despite the presence of M+S and Waitrose here now (AND Tesco AND Budgens) the butcher/fishmonger/greengrocer seem to be fine. They are always busy. Incidentally, Hornsey Pet and Garden Centre, mentioned in the article, is still here and thriving - I use it all the time (can anyone recommend a similar place on or near LL - I'll need one!)

[pk]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ----------------------

>

> Fears were this week raised over spiralling rents

> and the decline of traditional shopping in Crouch

> End Broadway after a major electrical store closed

> down.

>

> Traders and politicians are concerned that the

> prominent shopfront opposite the town hall vacated

> this week by Powerhouse could be taken over by

> another coffee shop or restaurant.

>

>

> "It's very sad. We are eating away at our

> traditional shops a problem hyped by the ability

> of coffee shops and restaurants to pay totally

> unrealistic rents.".

>

> "It's reaching the point that only bigger stores

> or restaurants can afford the exorbitant rents,"

> she said.

>

> Waitrose

>

> Article Here

so what's your point? that the electrical shops (?) won't survive with so many restaurants, coffee shops and trinket shops?

have you read the article (which dates from 2005 as already pointed out)? it even talks about a supermarket being replaced by a coffee shop

[SimonM]

Incidentally, Hornsey Pet and Garden Centre, mentioned in the article, is still here and thriving - I use it all the time (can anyone recommend a similar place on or near LL - I'll need one!)

North Cross Road has a small but generally excellent pet shop (nothing live though) Aquarium/fish supplies I think you need Crystal Palace

[HelBel65]

Thank you, I will check it out!

[Keef]

There is a good pet shop on Sydenham Road, more or less opposite the dolphin pub.

[EDdownunder]

This is probably mostly of interest to the pro-waitrose amongst us but I was reading a copy of the latest Which? magazine this evening that included a customer survey of UK supermarkets. First by a country mile was Waitrose with an 85% customer score, second was M&S with 68% and stone motherless last was the Co-op. with 46% with Sainsbury's also close to the bottom. No surprises there really.

[janicewendy]

Thinking Waitrose would be a good idea although where it would be situated is problematic.Perhaps we could do away with one of the many estate agents taking over LL

[Keef]

EDdownunder Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is probably mostly of interest to the

> pro-waitrose amongst us but I was reading a copy

> of the latest Which? magazine this evening that

> included a customer survey of UK supermarkets.

> First by a country mile was Waitrose with an 85%

> customer score, second was M&S with 68% and stone

> motherless last was the Co-op. with 46% with

> Sainsbury's also close to the bottom. No surprises

> there really.

I disagree. I think the surprise is that M&S done so well.

[dolcevita]

So the choice is either Foxton's or Waitrose then janicewendy.

Tough call!

[Narnia]

I went to buy an admittedly unusual product (rice milk) yesterday on LL. I bought it for ?1.99 in one of the local shops having tried the coop and tesco express. As my other half insisted I shouldn't get it locally (ignored by me) as it's much cheaper in Sainsburys, I decided to check their price when I came home as I couldn't be bothered going there just for this. They were selling the exact same product for ?1.

Why again is it that we should be supporting the local shops when they appear to be generally more expensive? Are we paying for how the local high street looks?

[SeanMacGabhann]

is that an entirely bad concept? If you had the choice of no local shops or an uberstore on a retail park would it make for a happier local environment

You will always be able to find many items cheaper in a large supermarket - they run deals all the time and have much much greater buying power (which also includes squeezing suppliers until the pips squeak)

But then again many items are much much more expensive than local shops - buy that little packet of parsley for best part of a pound or get a much much bigger and fragrant bunch from a local shop for less?

And if it's just one item you are in and out in seconds from a local shop - if you go to sainsbury's (does that involve a drive) chances are you end up spending more on other items as well

But you would think if a local shop is charging x2 for items they would be rich, no? And yet I don't see it

[Ladymuck]

If cost is of the utmost importance, then I guess the obvious thing to do is to vote with your wallet. I.e. buy the rice milk at Sainsburys and that lovely fat bunch of fragrant parsley from the "Turkish shop" e.g. That's what I do (except that I grow my own parlsey). Inconvenient perhaps for some - but that's the trade off.

[pk]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> >

> is that an entirely bad concept?

many can't afford to do this, and giving money to shopkeepers is certainly not an efficient way of improving the local environment

> You will always be able to find many items cheaper

> in a large supermarket - they run deals all the

> time and have much much greater buying power

> (which also includes squeezing suppliers until the

> pips squeak)

>

agreed

> But then again many items are much much more

> expensive than local shops - buy that little

> packet of parsley for best part of a pound or get

> a much much bigger and fragrant bunch from a local

> shop for less?

agreed

>

> And if it's just one item you are in and out in

> seconds from a local shop - if you go to

> sainsbury's (does that involve a drive) chances

> are you end up spending more on other items as

> well

agreed - so it sounds like there's a place for both

>

> But you would think if a local shop is charging x2

> for items they would be rich, no? And yet I don't

> see it

there's a real lack of logic here - if there was pub charging x2 for a pint would they be rich? - no, they'd go out of business, because people would buy their beer elsewhere

[SeanMacGabhann]

Pk ? It might not always sound like it but I agree that there is a place for both. It?s just I think the balance is tipping the supermarkets way so I?m trying to counter that

I think the current balance in the area is about right and people can adapt the LadyMuck model of pick and choosing as budget sees fit.

[Jeremy]

I would expect to pay extra, given the higher rents/costs, lack of buying power, and different business model. Many people would consider it worth paying a premium for the sake of supporting local businesses, and a thriving high street (although of course, that is highly subjective). If you live off LL, there is value in the proximity also. But double the price seems excessive to say the least.

I'm all for supporting local businesses, but at the same time, they need to stand up on their own merit, in terms of quality/selection of stock and customer service, which needs to be balanced with price.

(SeanMac has a point, in that some supermarket items are overpriced in comparison with local shops)