Support for our childrens teachers and staff

[sagatelsagouni]

I hope on Thursday that all of us who have children in local Schools show support for all those teachers and staff who dedicate themselves to teaching the next generation.

We have suffered a week of distateful spin from this coalition but the one thing that they have failed to mention is that these children are likely to be some of the next generation of public sector teaching staff. It is those children's future terms and conditions, as well as the current teaching staff which these community ignorant proposals aim to degrade.

The private sector need to grow some back bone and fight their own battles, the comparisons are meaningless and ridiculous. Don't fall for the government hype about affecting hard working families, don't let them isolate these dedicated teaching staff for their own political agenda. Just hoot your horns, wave from across the street, give them yours and your children's support.Send a clear message that holds some small significant value against the empty rhetoric of nasty politicians like Micheal Gove.

To all the teachers and staff Good luck on Thursday

[Bunny19]

What bollokcs

[sagatelsagouni]

Yes dear of course it is.

How about you just cross the road and get some spelling advice. I will get some punctuation advice and see u there.

[Marmora Man]

The teachers pension scheme is currently largely funded by taxes - with demographic changes meaning that the cost to taxpayers was set to grow significantly. It is one small part of the annual deficit which meant that by the end of 2009 gov't was spending 25% more than it was taking in taxes every year. This sort of annual deficit is unsustainable and action must be taken. Asking public sector employees to contribute more toward their pensions is both a reasonable and fair part of the solution. See Hutton Report for more details.

The teachers pension will remain attractive after the changes which require teachers to pay an additional 3.4% into their scheme to help defray its costs - it is only Sagatelsagouni's Socialist Worker / student union tosh that is arguing otherwise.

1. Teachers pension rights accrued to date will remain unchanged.

2. The scheme remains a Defined Benefit scheme (ie has a defined financial value)

3. Shifting from RPI to CPI has a logic - RPI excludes the costs of a mortgage, CPI does not. Few people pay a mortgage once retired.

4. Almost 100% of teachers are in the pension scheme

5. The average teachers pension will be, at todays prices, > ?12,000 + a lump sum of 3 x pension.

Current teachers pensions contributions are 6.4% (from salary) and 14.1% (from employer - aka as taxpayers). Plan is to increase the 6.4% salary deduction to 9.8%. Even after the changes this represents a very good deal and one most private sector employees would be very happy to get.

In contrast:

Private sector pensions:

1. Average contributions 2.9% (from salary) and 6.4% (from employer).

2. Will be a defined contribution scheme - ie the sum received as a pension depends upon the vagaries of the stock market and annuity providers

3. Less than 50% of private sector employees in a pension scheme

4. Average pension, at todays prices, approx ?2,500.

Edited for spelling / typos

[Brendan]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 3. Shifting from RPI to CPI has a logic - RPI

> excludes the costs of a mortgage, CPI does not.

> Few people pay a mortgage once retired.

Maybe not in your generation pal.

[Loz]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Marmora Man Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > 3. Shifting from RPI to CPI has a logic - RPI

> > excludes the costs of a mortgage, CPI does not.

> > Few people pay a mortgage once retired.

>

> Maybe not in your generation pal.

Since I'm just going through this (overly painful) process I can say that banks are not at all happy if your age + mortgage length > retirement age. I'm having to get a smaller term because of this.

[Mick Mac]

Teachers. Work shorter hours than everyone else. Get more holidays than everyone else. Get paid ffrom start date until death with their pay going down slightly after retirement but increasing again with inflation until death. Then spouse pension takes over ;) .

Hoot if you agree.;-)

[Loz]

On the other hand, Mick Mac, I wouldn't want to have to deal daily with a bunch of arrogant shitbags who 'know their rights' and have parents that think the sun shines out their little darling's behind. Most teachers I know get sworn at on a daily basis by the little dears. And are they allowed to go medieval on their ass - nope.

That's not to say they are right on this issue, though, but I wouldn't do the job. But I would issue each and every teacher with a taser and carte blanche to use it.

[peterstorm1985]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown Marmora Man. I was beginning to wonder if I should have some sympathy for the teachers. I wouldn't choose teaching as a career - although standard issue tasers might help - but there are plenty of other jobs in difficult environments, with much less chance of satisfaction (I'm told it only takes one kid who finally 'gets' it). I'm sorry for those who think the rug's been pulled out from under them but there are a lot of us who've been sat on the cold stone floor for some time.

[Jah Lush]

I have a lot of sympathy for the teachers. (HONK HONK!) They do work hard and have to put up with a lot of shit. OK they get the holiday breaks that we don't but it's still not an easy job. Anyway, having said that I've also suffered the same fate (more or less) with my pension, as I am sure many others have - having to pay more in to get the same out. It's unfortunate but it's a basic fact that pensions in this country are fucked and so's the economy.

[Townleygreen]

Teachers. Work shorter hours than everyone else. Get more holidays than everyone else. Get paid ffrom start date until death with their pay going down slightly after retirement but increasing again with inflation until death. Then spouse pension takes over ;) .

What appalling ignorant rubbish. If teaching is so easy, why didn't you go for it?

You should especially try teaching in your 60s. The actuaries tell us that if a teacher retires at 65, their life expectancy is 18 MONTHS.

That's because teaching a class is a very stressful activity - fine when you are young, but deadly in your 60s. If you get that far.

[Mick Mac]

I could not have put it better than Mamora Man , so I chose to be flippant.

However the dispute is not a question of whether the job is easy or not. My father was a teacher all his life, I know from this that it is more challenging and more rewarding than some other jobs.

It also has great perks! Teachers cannot have it both ways. I hope both parties come to a reasonable solution. But whilst saying "I'm being asked to pay more in and get less out" may be true under the proposals, its also fair on the rest of the population.

[Townleygreen]

Great perks!

Being dead before you are 67 when other people live to 78!

That's the sort of perk even you wouldn't want, Mick.

[Marmora Man]

ou should especially try teaching in your 60s. The actuaries tell us that if a teacher retires at 65, their life expectancy is 18 MONTHS.

I think you'll find this is an urban myth. It is certainly almost exactly, word for word, an oft quoted "fact" about military pensions and life expectancy.

A fairly recent report quoted by BBC indicates that a teacher's life expectancy was 79.2 in 2005 and expected to be above 80 by 2010.

[helena handbasket]

Recently while teaching I had a typically crappy day with the little angels and I thought to myself: "Do I really hate myself this much?" Life's too short; I'm out.

If I have to spend one more day in a classroom I think I will off myself. Where would I fit into that statistic?

[Mick Mac]

Coincidentally my father died aged 67, but I don't think that was anything to do with teaching.

Are you suggesting teachers die younger, due to stress?

How old was Mr Chips?

[ianr]

I think ONS life expectancy figures are typically given for people at ages 0 and 65. The ones given above obviously won't be for newborns, so will I guess be for an already fairly old generation. And presumably, it'll include all those who have been teachers but may have retired or left the profession some time previously.

Actually, looking at the BBC report, it seems to be about social classes rather than specific occupations -- which would explain why I've not yet found any occuaption-specific stuff in the national statistics. That being so, it shouldn't really imo have been adduced as a figure for teachers at all, other than as a best available guess.

[Chippy Minton]

I'm sorry for those who think the rug's been pulled out from under them but there are a lot of us who've been sat on the cold stone floor for some time.

AHHHH....why is there this notion that "if I can't have it, why should they"? It's ridiculous! Why level down? I've had to increase my pension contributions by four per cent over the last two years - this pissed me off but it doesn't make me wish everyone else should get hammered as well. Private sector pensions are crap and they will never get better whilst employers use the example of public sector pensions being crap as well.

What the government is doing comes on top of changes negotiated under Labour that reduced the value of public sector pensions by 10 per cent through a range of changes - especially under so-called ?cap and share?, members agreed to first share ? and then fully bear ? the costs of any unexpected increase in longevity. The impact of this, according to the National Audit Office is: "In addition to saving significant sums of money, the changes are projected to stabilise costs in the long-term around their current level as a proportion of GDP." And the RPI/CPI change will further reduce the value of public service pensions by 15%.

Cameron claims the system will go broke but this chart in the Hutton Report shows that public service pensions payments will decline as a share of GDP before any of the changes proposed in Hutton bite. So even before Hutton, public sector pensions had been made sustainable.

I'll be supporting not only the teachers, but all the public sector workers tomorrow.

Edited to try and get the picture inserted :-$

[sagatelsagouni]

How amazing ! This got moved out of the related to ED section, I thought thiswas an independent blog. It appears Mr Barber and friends complained.

Mam - I think we all know that it was you who only a few years back was studying politics and history at loughborough uni, all these student protests are a bit obvious.

Frankly your silly little bullet points are just a concoction of idiocy. You. Are slavering in your attempts to prop up your little liberal mates. The bottom line is that the majority of private sector companies with any unionisation and public ones alike have rejected the move to CPI as it means huge losses to those who have been contributing for years. Pretty all the BBC journo's who you watch starry eyed every day rejected CPI only recently.

As for you public private comparisons what is the point. What is the social contribution of a Virgin call centre or Carphone warehouse ? What r they putting back exactly?

Also my viz reading, cfra swilling friend, how many teachers do you know who got a performance related bonus ? Oh right none. My mates in bloody B+Q got nearly 900quid and John Lewis upwards of 3 grand before tax.

Its just baseless propaganda and nearly a million well educated people disagree with you. But hey you know better, u can save us, you'll save the 'people' Thanks but no thanks , we can look after ourselves.

By the way your brand as liberalism will be as dead as 'loads of money' in tethe 80's, it will just an embarrassing footnote hidden under your bed along with your dissertation on the single european currency.

Good luck on Thursday Everyone

[*Bob*]

Do they get Viz on submarines?

[Captain Scarlet]

Go back to work you lazy sods

[Loz]

AHHHH....why is there this notion that "if I can't have it, why should they"?

I don't object to them having it. I object to my taxes paying for it.

[Chippy Minton]

hmmm....do you also object to your council tax paying for street lighting on Frien Road even though you don't live there?

[Mick Mac]

People need to reassess their pension expectations generally.

Many years from now we will be encouraged to utilise all available assets to support us in retirement including the value in the family home. We will do this instead of relying on a state funded pension.

If we want to keep our savings and our house and expect to pass these down to our offspring om death then we need to fund our own pensions.

I'm generally in favour of pensioners being looked after in retirement but they should not be greatly enriched if they have sufficient assets to support themselves.

A pension is not a right that van be taken for granted unless you have put your own money down. The currrent penson reductions are the thin end of the wedge.

[*Bob*]

I bet they do. I bet they get Viz, fillet steak and as much money as they can eat.

That's the problem with the armed forces.

It's all about them, them, them. They will never be able to comprehend the plight of a teacher, out on the front line.