Your views on Foie Gras

[Annette Curtain]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> I liked foie gras - but having an idea of how it

> is made I'd be more than happy to settle for a

> good goose/duck liver pate or any other decent

> pate. So I don't order foie gras any more.

>

>

> Im a real meat fan, but dont generally agree with

> animals being made to suffer extra hardship for

> our benefit.

>

> But a good steak from a well looked after cow is

> hard to beat.

>

> Thanks for raising this Thomas.

Agree

(tu)

[katie1997]

Frankito Wrote:

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> Tom, I am all for raising awareness and good on

> you for doing so as I am sure there are some

> people out there tucking into duck pate,

> blissfully unaware of the process that goes into

> making it.

Absolutely, think that Tom raising awareness is a good thing too.

>

> However, personally, not sure if boycotting a

> restaurant that chooses to have it on the menu is

> asking a bit too much..

Agree. There are also local shops selling foie gras. Will you target them also? So why aim for one (albeit French) restaurant? The others who have agreed to not have it on their menu aren't specifically French either. Raise awareness about it and less people are likely to order it anyway and those that do will probably never be persuaded otherwise.

[StraferJack]

A different take on Foie Gras

here

from Tony Bourdain

But whatever one?s views on the production methods, I find the thread itself curious. Tony is frequently starting threads about vegetarianism/veganism, so to pick on one aspect of animal treatment and to pick on one restaurant locally seems out of order and very selective

[petersen]

As a vegetarian I completely disagree with eating meat. But obviously I am in the minority and people will choose to eat it. I think if I were to ever eat meat it would only free range, organic affair as really, the systems in meat production are just horrific, and also you never really know what you're eating with cheap meat, what antibiotics, viruses, chemicals and other nasties.

Foie gras i think is the epitome of all that is cruel as it is essentially a condensed and hyper version of factory farming.

I read something earlier actually quite by chance, that Germany has banned foie gras at a food fair, because of the face that only 15% of french farmers abide by the new EU regulations banning keeping the geese in individual cages small enough that they cannot move their wings. I mean if youre gonna eat an animal i do think you should give it a bit of respect, and I dont see why France allows this as an exception. 'Article L654 of the 2006 rural code states: "Foie gras is part of the protected cultural and gastronomic heritage of France. By 'foie gras' is meant the liver of a duck or a goose specifically fattened by force-feeding."'

[DaveR]

"Foie gras i think is the epitome of all that is cruel"

Slight hyperbole?

The evidence for foie gras production techniques being cruel is largely photographic i.e. 'look at what that nasty French man is doing to that goose!' rather than scientific i.e. measurements of stress levels, premature mortality rates etc. And the one thing it definitely isn't is factory farming.

So, my view on foie gras? Delicious!

PS "is there a vegatarian equivalent?" "Forced rhubarb" = comedy gold

[david_carnell]

Thomas - have Franklins, EDT (who have never served foie gras anyway) and Beuberry House stopped serving because of your campaign? If so, could I less than politely asked you to stop it and bugger off.

Quite frankly, what business is it of yours where I spend my money and what on? And why are you the moral arbiter of food production who is now preventing me from being able to eat what I like, where I like?

If you don't want to eat it - fine. Don't. And take your money elsewhere too. But leave those of us with tastebuds to enjoy our dead animal pieces in peace.

Bloody busy-body! I'm going to lobby Franklins to serve it again so we can enjoy eating it once more.

[Jeremy]

Thomas Micklewright Wrote:

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> Franklins, EDT and Beauberry House have all agreed to stop serving Foie Gras.

The EDT have previously served foie gras? Are you absolutely sure about that?

Surely most people (certainly those who are likely to eat at high end restaurants) already know what foie gras is. So let them decide if they want to eat it or not.

[Heinz]

Kobe beef is also kept drunk all day and get it's flavour from having quite a bit of fat due in part to alcohol cunsumption and not doing much.

Geese or ducks bred for foie gras feel the discomfort an unhealthy chip eating slob would feel...Don't hear them complaining to much though.

By the way hunger is also a discomfort, and a lot of people suffer from it. once they are satiated I shall start worrying about foie gras.

[Otta]

I tried it once, when a friend ordered it at The Palmerston. Thought it tasted nice, but not so great as to justify the disgusting way that it's produced. Certainly not when you can get lovely pates that don't involve such cruelty. This and veal are both wrong IMO.

However, I'm a hypocrite, as I do enjoy the odd KFC, and the way that chicken are farmed for these places is just as cruel really.

Read "Two Caravans" by Marina Lewycka for a horrific insight (told in a funny way).

[Jeremy]

Heinz Wrote:

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> Kobe beef is also kept drunk all day

I don't think so... Kobe/Wagyu cows are fed beer, but I don't think it's enough to get such a big animal drunk. They are sometimes kept in small spaces though.

[Frankito]

Thanks Kat-o-many-digits. >:D Frankito Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Tom, I am all for raising awareness and good on

> > you for doing so as I am sure there are some

> > people out there tucking into duck pate,

> > blissfully unaware of the process that goes

> into

> > making it.

>

> Absolutely, think that Tom raising awareness is a

> good thing too.

> >

> > However, personally, not sure if boycotting a

> > restaurant that chooses to have it on the menu

> is

> > asking a bit too much..

>

> Agree. There are also local shops selling foie

> gras. Will you target them also? So why aim for

> one (albeit French) restaurant? The others who

> have agreed to not have it on their menu aren't

> specifically French either. Raise awareness about

> it and less people are likely to order it anyway

> and those that do will probably never be persuaded

> otherwise.

[maxxi]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A different take on Foie Gras

>

> here

>

> from Tony Bourdain

>

> But whatever one?s views on the production

> methods, I find the thread itself curious. Tony is

> frequently starting threads about

> vegetarianism/veganism, so to pick on one aspect

> of animal treatment and to pick on one restaurant

> locally seems out of order and very selective

A big fan of 'Kitchen Confidential' I looked at this and I think he's right - to vegans and such the idea of FG is 'a spearpoint issue' which they hope will lead to the banning of all meat/meat products - frankly I would listen with more respect to a fellow carnivore about animal husbandry problems than someone who's objective is to ban meat in toto.

Have to say I agree with DC too and (incidentally) having looked at the OP again I think it's the "Hey Guys" intro that turns my stomach.

[The Minkey]

I love good food but I've never had the urge to try foie gras precisely because it involves force feeding. With the advent of factory farms, it's become an even more distasteful practise.

http://www.mspca.org/programs/animal-protection-legislation/animal-welfare/farm-animal-welfare/factory-farming/ducks-geese/ducks-geese-on-a-factory.html

"PHYSICAL/BEHAVIORAL EFFECTS

The practice of force feeding causes suffering to geese and ducks. Evidence gathered from scientific research, veterinary analysis, observations at foie gras farms and necropsies document the physical, social and behavioral impacts of force feeding on birds.

The force feeding often results in physical injuries such as a lacerated trachea and esophagus. Force feeding causes liver steatosis, meaning the liver is no longer able to work as a circulatory filter. This malfunctioning of the liver often results in damage to the central nervous system. The enlargement of the liver also impairs breathing as the liver squeezes the air sacs of the lungs. This is evidenced by the constant panting of ducks raised for foie gras. The enlarged liver also causes an extreme weight gain, making it extremely difficult for the ducks to walk. All this adds up to a mortality rate that is 20 times higher on foie gras farms than on conventional duck farms.

PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS

Birds kept for foie gras production are confined in cages and live in constant darkness. They are unable to express any of their natural behaviors and instincts. Both ducks and geese are extremely social animals; their individual confinement does not provide any of the natural stimulation they receive from social interaction.

Their confinement also makes them unable to fly. Birds are also unable to swim, as they are only given enough water to, at best, stick their bill in. Birds are also debilled, a process where their upper bills are cut off. The debilling process is extremely painful for birds as bill tissue is rich in nerve endings. Birds raised for foie gras are unable perform any of their natural behaviors."

[Marmora Man]

I love it.

[Otta]

That video StraferJack posted just struck me as a man who likes good food trying to justify it to himself. It certainly didn't disprove any cruelty IMO.

I wouldn't call people "evil" though.

[Alec John Moore]

@maxxi "Have to say I agree with DC too and (incidentally) having looked at the OP again I think it's the "Hey Guys" intro that turns my stomach."

Oh well, as long as it wasn't the food that turned your stomach.

[*Bob*]

I can't help feeling that knowledge of the - shall we say - somewhat intensive production methods all add to the seduction and appeal.

Indeed, were there to be a luxury foodstuff derived as a result of repeatedly kicking a badger in the slats whilst simultaneously giving it a Chinese burn, it would probably be top of the menu in many top Le Restaurants.

[Ted Max]

Plenty of badger slats coming onto the market soon...

Anyone who eats meat is by definition making some kind of compromise with animal suffering, given the beasts all have to march up the abbatoir steps at some point, or get on the outside of a bullet etc. People sit where they are happy to, can afford to, on that scale.

Slightly confuses me that many* people I know who would only eat well-sourced beef, chicken, sausages, with at least part of the reason being animal husbandry and care, are only too happy to stuff the product of a deliberately enlarged liver down their gob. Tastes too good, I suppose.

* at least a few, anyway

[Heinz]

And what about the plight of forced rhubarb do vegetarians feel bad about buying it ?

[StraferJack]

More background , and a good read

here

I'm not sure even going by the mspca description a few posts above it can be compared to, say, battery chicken farms. equating filthy chicken with foie gras isn't really accurate.

You could argue the consumers of filthy chicken have more in common with the ducks than the battery chickens do

[Otta]

I never equated them, O just called myself a hypocrite for going on about cruelty.

[StraferJack]

Otta - I was referring more to Ted's post

[Thomas Micklewright]

Thanks guys - great to have a discussion on this topic.

East Dulwich Tavern, Beauberry House and Franklins have stopped serving foie gras - yes because we asked them to.

The reasoning behind mentioning Le Chardon is that it is (I believe - please correct if wrong) the last place in Dulwich to serve Foie Gras. I chose Foie Gras as it is a horrible product, and many people have stood against it - including Prince Charles. I would love to see a Foie Gras Free Dulwich.

I dont think my choice is overly selective, I had to start somewhere, and I chose Foie Gras. I also campaign against factory farming. I dont think a boycott is too extreme either, it is a great way to show a company how consumers feel, and a lever to improve rights - whether they be human or animal.

Is there anywhere else in Dulwich serving Foie Gras?

Thanks, Thomas.

[DJKillaQueen]

I have eaten foie gras and liked it. Then I found out how it is produced and made the same moral choice I make when buying any meat, fish and dairy products and stopped buying or eating it. Just because there is a market for something doesn't make it ok.

[Ted Max]

I wasn't equating FG and battery chicken - I was saying that there is a scale and people take their place on it as they see fit.

Yet I also see people who seek to source food that they know has been farmed to high welfare standards eating foie gras (which may or may not have cause suffering to the animal) with a shrug of the shoulders.

I guess people do what they can with most of their purchases, and let the odd exception pass through on grounds of taste/can't be botheredness. Otta's exception is the Colonel, for others it's FG.