Plot to rename bonfire night

[Marmora Man]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> ah yes , renaming waterloo - pesky EU eh?

>

> another myth bites the dust

That may be a myth (altho' it clearly has some basis in fact) but the following is true (I was there).

Back in the day I was responsible for aspects of submarine operations, particularly for "water sharing" in the Atlantic where it was considered bad form for two boats to be operating in the same patch of water - hence we had NATO wide arrangements. The French, being French, and not totally signed up to NATO were not always co-operative.

To develop and improve relations we invited a senior French admiral to visit, have talks at the Ministry of Defence, in Naval HQ in north London and spend time at sea in a Royal Navy submarine. the itinerary was:

09.30: Arrive Waterloo station

09.30. Travel to MoD (via Trafalgar Square)

12.30. Travel to NHQ - Northwood

15.30. Help to Faslane naval base - joint HMS Trafalgar for 36 hours familiarisation trip

O/c Attend Trafalgar Night dinner - where the French liaison officer gave a very good speech explaining that, in fact, Admiral Nelson had lost that particular battle to the combined might of the French & Spanish navies.

[StraferJack]

does it? based on what?

[mockney piers]

:)

Did you spark him up a marlboro[ugh] and open his eyes to the truth over a brandy at the Blenheim Bar?

[Marmora Man]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> :)

>

> Did you spark him up a marlboro and open his eyes

> to the truth over a brandy at the Blenheim Bar?

Nice idea - we weren't that up on 17th century land battles!

[Marmora Man]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> >

> does it? based on what?

In that a senior representative of an EU institution raised the idea - albeit as an individual. Of course it may have been in a gently ironic way as our teasing of a French admiral was.

[steveo]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> They advertise it as 'free' but it costs ?55k. So

> who is paying? I think the answer is we are. What

> a waste of money on something with no long term

> benefit,

Do you mean the firework event or Southwark Life magazine?

[Ted Max]

The Colour Thief idea was clearly intended as an allegorical attack on the policies of the Coalition government.

For 55k, I only see it ending one way - an outsize model of Cllr James Barber being exploded in a Catherine Wheel of flaming, socialist ecstasy from the top of one of ComputedShorty's moody wind turbines.

(BYO sparklers and matches, always wear gloves, please use the exits provided)

[James Barber]

Hi RosieH,

Apologies for being so direct - nasty man cold and the world feels more blakc and white when I'm under the weather.

Southwark council reduced its events budget down to ?360,000. Instead of supporting 12 events including the Irish festival on Peckham Rye it planned to reduce down to 3 events - north, middle and south. From memory ?53,000 for north, ?83,000 for middle event and ?55,000 for south event. That leaves around ?169,000 for the events team officers salaries.

Does that answer your question?

Some events are seperately supported by the devolved Community Fund of ?15,000 per community council which works out as ?5,000 for East Dulwich ward. So from that about ?900 goes to Dulwich Festival - roughly halfo f that from the East Dulwich ward ?5,000.

[Huguenot]

It does beg the question whether if they could only support one event, why they chose one on the same night that every other bugger in town is having one, and why it is taking place at such a time, and in such a context that it provides nothing to the local economy.

I'm guessing it's about a complete lack of iamgination rather than anything else.

[James Barber]

Hi Red Max,

Sparklers, Fireworks, glass bottles will not be allowed into the park with security staff on the night searching people as they enter.

[njc97]

Huguenot - quite right, why not have an event at 11am on a Tuesday morning in August, because that's a much more popular time for a fireworks display.

[Huguenot]

Why spend it on a fireworks display when every other bugger is having one?

Why not spend it on a 3 day festival? Summer market? Christmas Fayre? May Day Festival?

Get local retailers in, instead of touring entertainers?

[tiddles]

it is a bit daft to have any kind of 'do' that involves fireworks, on the weekend of bonfire night and name it something else - do it february - we could all do with a bit of a boost then.

[DJKillaQueen]

James, as you well know, community council funding is seperate from events funding. It is aimed at small scale community events and has a wider remit as a result. You are not comparing like for like. Events funding is aimed at large scale events, that may have borough wide appeal.

How many events team officers are there James? So that we know in real terms how much 169K divvies up. The average salary of an events officer is 30k annually, hardly a massive salary by London standards. 169K sounds like a lot of money on it's own, but unless you tell us how many people that employs it's deliberatley vague and meaningless.

[RosieH]

DJKQ, yes, exactly. No time to get into this today, though I am interested. But in this, as in all things, context is key. I'm not saying James is wrong, but I just get the sense of being fobbed off for party political purposes.

12 events to 3 events - what was the budget reduced from? What are the north and middle events? (middle's getting a shitload more than south, no?) Presumably there's a rationale somewhere for these three events, something along the lines of, we have less money to spend, so we need to make sure that the events we do hold have as broad an appeal as possible..? Dunno, in the absence of any answers, am just guessing.

[DulwichFox]

One very important point missing throughout this thread is that people are encouraged to

Attend Public Displays rather than have their own in their back gardens.

Brockwell park Display scrapped last year. (Lambeth) but still attended by ED folk.

People love fireworks and Public displays are a Safe way for the whole family to enjoy a night out.

?55k is not a lot of money. If we all knew what other monies are spent and on what. ?millions wasted.

This thread was not about whether or not to have a display it was about why Firework Night was to be renamed

The Colour Thief.

[louiseneilan]

The story has made it into today's Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8777688/Councillors-condemned-over-Guy-Fawkes-name-change.html

[Ridgley]

Why or why do we have to change things, can?t we keep anything traditional do we always have to change things to fit in with someone else?s concept I am sure most of us grew up and still celebrate Guy Fawkes Night or Bonfire Night it has a great historical story a round it that what makes it so intriguing about the whole thing.

How many countries can top that are we going to change Waterloo Station because it offends Sarkozy and the French people? Can we just get real and except we have a great history in this country and we should be proud of it.

[mockney piers]

Don't worry Ridgely, we're not changing Waterloo because of the french, it's actually because it was such a godawful piece of Eurovision drivel that it offends the ears of everyone who hears it!

...

That or we're not changing it or trafalgar or anything else.

This was just a misjudged idea of a poncey, dulwich thing to do, I really don't think it has anything to do with political correctness, whatever that amorphous concept that means different things to different people might conceivably be.

[StraferJack]

Problem with traditions Ridgely is that they didn't all come fully-formed at the same time - and everyone went "yes I like that, let's do that forever"

they have all been co-opted and evolved over time. None of them have ever stayed exctly the same

As for renaming Waterloo, did you even read my link above?

[Ridgley]

I like the name Waterloo and Trafalgar they were two wars we won, and we should be proud of it, the amount of wars we have had with the French over the centuries is mind boggling these particular wars were memorial we had great leaders at the helm. I always thought that the French hated the English because we burned Joan of Arc I think that is the deep seated hatred over the centuries just my concept though.

[katie1997]

They built a wall to keep us out :(

The colour thief sounds like a load of old cobblers to me. I'm with you Dulwich Fox. What a farce.

[Ridgley]

I just read it SJ glad to hear it call me old fashion.

[Annette Curtain]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Guy_Fawkes_by_Cruikshank.jpg" Can't they leave anything alone "

[Ridgley]

You think?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Gunpowder_Plot_conspirators.jpg/800px-Gunpowder_Plot_conspirators.jpg