"Bilingual" children

[Monkey]

Anyone out there with tips on bilingual children? My daughter, who's just turned three, does not ever say anything in French. I am French, my husband is English and she goes to English school full time so English is the dominant language. I try to speak to her in French as much as I can but most of the time I have no idea which language I am speaking (been over here for 16 years) so I do slip back into English often. I am concerned that she won't be able to strike a relationship with my parents when we next visit.

Starting to feel I have left it too late...

Looking for people who have been in a similar situation but have managed to turn things around.

Tks.

[mynamehere]

I think you will be swallowed by a blizzard on this post but here's my 2p: We're bi-lingual and the rule is one parent, you, only speaks (French) to your child. English to the world/ your partner but French to your child. And, and this is the trick, you must not allow her to speak anything but French to you. When she responds in English (I'm sure she understands French) you "pretend" you do not understand. If she wants something from you she must speak French. As with a lot of this sort of training advice it only hurts for a very short amount of time. Just say "I don't understand" (in French!) and then give her the French answer and wait until she repeats it. She will. And of course French books and DVDs etc. You have to force her to talk.

[etta166]

I agree with mynamehere. However, I have utterly failed to do this with my children (I am French-speaking, but not for a long time).

On a more positive note, I would hardly say that I am even bilingual any more given how badly my French as deteriorated. But I did not have any formal contact with English speaking (other than my parents and their friends) until I was 5 or 6 and it is now my dominant language by a long way. Even at age 5-8, I still spoke French at school. So you are not too late to start a second language at the age of 3.

Even more positively, my sister is a linguistics specialist and her opinion is that 10 years old is the upper limit for starting a second language and learning it "naturally" rather than formally.

PS Monkey - do you want to try to get our non-bilingual 3 year olds to meet up and try to speak French together?

[midivydale]

I have done alot of research on this when i was pregnant and the general advice seems to be consistency and "one person -one language" ie just what has been suggested to you above. It is sooo hard though. I was adament to speak swedish only to baby ivydale but constantly switch between the two (a big no no according to experts on the topic).

I feel silly almost rude speaking swedish to him when english people are around. Also my other half always asks what i say to the baby, which means i have to say everything twice...not great when you are soo tired saying things once is bad enough.

We read and sing lots in swedish and when he is older he can watch swedish childrens programmes.

Are there other french speaking parents/children you could meet?

What about skyping with family/friends back home?

[VanessaPMR]

My daughter currently shouts: 'stop speaking French, no no no French..' and clasps her hands over her ears whenever I try to engage her in a little French chat. She is 2 and a half (almost..). However, she does indulge my mother's attempts..

[lillyanginger]

Monkey,

I am sure it is not too late. While your child may not be answering in French, she will be building up a large passive vocabulary. Use DVD's, audio books (dare I say tapes...or whatever they are today:)) We used to read to the children in German, have German TV etc.

The result is a very good if a little mixed. They (11 and 14) understand everything and the eldest speaks it perfectly. His younger brother makes more mistakes but can keep a conversation going.

What is important is that you keep your other language current. Get newer tv programms, invite cousins (obv once your child is a little older), send them to spend time with relatives or friends if that is possible and have holidays/short trips to France.

I am not sure I would insist they answer me in my language all the time, I dont want to make a huge deal out of something that should be quite natural and she will hopefully come to appreciate when she is a little older. Just DO NOT GIVE UP!!!!

My sons are (mostly) quite proud of the fact they speak a different language and I am convinced it is helping them with their other languages at school.

KEEP IT UP...it is really worth it. And your parents/friends will appreciate being able to talk to their grandchildren. It makes it much more fun going on holiday later to different countries and the children can understand more than one language and always fall back into 'the other one' if they need to keep it private.

[DaveR]

A friend of mine teaches at a French Saturday school in Blackheath where most of the kids are from mixed French/other language families. Her kids are pretty fluent but they still go, and started when they were pretty young.

http://www.franceinlondon.com/en-Business-in-London-2005-grenadine-aschool-afrench.html

[lauracg]

Hi Monkey,

I share the same difficulty, I often do not realise which language I am speaking so switch between my Italian mothertongue and English all the time. This is not due to a lack of discipline on my side, but really English comes natural and often easier. However, I do try as much as possible to bombard them with Italian, so I have a whole collection of books in Italian and even some english classics (like the Gruffalo) in italian, that helps a lot as the kids can relate better with stories they already know. Same with DVDs I let them watch them but I alternate the languages (there was a bit of complaining at starts but now they seem to accept the rule). And at night time mummy reads only books in her own language (daddy does the English ones).

Both my kids go to an English school so English is the dominant language. However our breakthrough happened last summer when we spent the summer holiday in Italy and in order to be able to play with the other kids on the beach my two had to use their Italian skills. At the end of the summer the eldest (5 years old) could make a conversation (with lots of mistakes but able to make himself understood!) and the little one (3+) is now mixing the two languages (which experts say it is normal in bilungual kids). Now I make an extra effort on the school runs to speak only Italian and point at things around us in Italian. They no longer complain and ask "can u say it in English?".

My experience is that if you manage to spend enough time with your family in your homecountry your kids will be bilingual. In any case even if you can't travel there that often don't give up, they absorb more than we realise.

Midivydale: I too felt it was rude to use my language around people that could not understand it, and that meant my eldest took longer to pick up the language. Now I am determined not to make the same mistake with the younger one. There is nothing rude if a mother addresses her kids in her own language and any intelligent adult would understand the gift we are offering our children, if anyone gets offended it is their problem. Find the courage of not worrying about what other may think of you and do what is best for your child - This is what I do/think when I find myself in an awkward situation.

My eldest used to refuse to answer me in Italian, now he is proud of speaking it. And I am obviously proud of him, but yes it is hard work to switch between the two languages and I still do not manage to stick on one language like most experts suggest.

PS: Anyone with Italian-English (3 to 6 yrs old) bilingual kids that wishes to meet up on a strictly Italian playdate?

[Sanne Panne]

I used to mix Dutch (my mother tongue) and English with some success. The key for us has been to find a Dutch nanny for the 3-4 days I work. That extra person speaking the foreign language on a regular basis seems to make a world of difference. My 4yo now spontaneously addresses my 2yo in Dutch whereas her knowledge used to be mostly passive. My 2yo now actually needs some encouragement when it comes to speaking English.

If childcare in the second language isn't an option try to organise strict second language-only groups. I know this will offend some but a tea date in English with a couple of French/Italian/Dutch/Greek/Swedish songs isn't going to make a difference.

[millsa]

I agree with Sanne Panne - I am, unfortunately, mixing between Polish and English (and every time I actually think about it I promise myself to stop mixing) so my kids understand both but speak English, however since we have found a Polish childminder with her little one who speaks only Polish to them, my 2-year-old daughter's Polish has improved massively.

I find it hard to read Polish story books to my 4-year-old as I can see that he doesn't understand everything, doesn't follow the story. I usually read and translate straight afterwards so he can follow.

We skype my family a lot and also try to visit as often as we can, and usually after a few days they both switch to Polish. We also have a few CDs with Polish songs for kids and they love it - although I see that they find it hard to sing as don't know all the words.

But now, having read mynamehere's advice to pretend not to understand English, I will REALLY try to stick to it as it sounds like a good method. Thanks! :)

[birnehelene]

Lots of great advice here. My daughter is only 10 months old, but I am trying very hard to speak German to her at least most of the time. I exclusively speak German to her when we are on our own. I found the support from a German playgroup invaluable as well as encouragement from family members to speak German (on visits to Germany). We are in the fortunate position to have a family member coming as an 'au pair' next month to look after my daughter when I return to work so she will speak only German. Getting support to encourage you to speak French would be great. There are some playgroups which have been advertised on the forum before so that may be helpful.

However I strongly disagree with the suggestion to only respond to your daughter if she speaks French to you. From a psychological perspective this could be very damaging to your relationship, for her emotional and language development. There are many bilingual children who refuse to speak one language for some time but are actually able to speak it later on. I have seen this many times with children raised abroad. Also, my partner was forced by his dad in a very similar way to speak his local language (he is from West Africa) instead of English. Dad would only respond and talk to him in the local language. However this led to great resentment and thus my partner has refused to engage with the language whatsoever and has therefore lost the ability to speak it at all. So I think it would be more helpful to follow a gentle approach and use the language yourself and encourage your daughter to speak it too, but don't beat yourself up if she doesn't respond in French. It is very likely to happen over time that she will speak French especially if she sees that its great to be able to communicate better with other family members (maybe grandparents or cousins) in France.

[nylonmeals]

@Monkey

There is a very good French nursery in Herne Hill http://www.ecolecadetrousselle.co.uk/, if you wanted to immerse your little one with other bi-lingual children you could see if you could maybe do one or two mornings a week. French might suddenly become much more fun if all the other kids were talking it!

[GCOakley]

I lived overseas when the kids were little and found it weird sometimes to be speaking to my kids in English when everyone else was speaking Spanish. Sometimes I had to really concentrate to make sure I kept it up. But the effort was worth it, and now we are back here my partner only speaks to the kids in Spanish. We keep the one language per parent rule, but i would never tell off a child for answering back in a different language as then you only build up resentment. If we want to promote one language we do lots of games etc. You need to make it fun, and just part of your family life. Don't worry about the rate of development, remember by the time your kids are teenagers they will be bilingual - or pretty near - so take the long perspective.

[Monkey]

Thank you all for your advice. I now speak to her in French exclusively - this is hard! - and she seems to understand me. She even treated me to a "merci, maman" when I bribed her with camembert tonight(why worry - she seems to be a French girl at heart!) unfortunately I cannot take her to Cadet Roussell as she is at school full time but I have heard only good things about it. I will take your advice and buy lots of French books. The ones I have are so naff (Tchoupi!) that I had put them aside. But buying the gruffalo and other gems in French seems like a good solution.

Thank you again.

[mrs f]

Hey not direct experience but my husbands niece is bilingual, she spoke Thai 1st as lived there, mum Thai & dad english but he spoke in both Thai & English. When she was 3 or so she spoke only Thai although she did understand English too. She then started at English school & her dad started speaking only English to her & that became the dominant language... So I'm sure it's in there & with a bit of encouragement will come through.

Lucky kids, I wish I was bilingual!

[lauracg]

Hi Monkey, you can start your collection

on www.amazon.fr the have the Gruffalo and more

.... And shipping to UK is very reasonable.

[BeccaL]

I think there is a bookshop on Great Marlborough Street (parallel to Oxford Street, between Poland Street and Ramilles Street, behind M&S) which sells bilingual editions of a few popular children's books - have seen Gruffalo, Stick Man, Elmer, Miffy in there. Miffy has been translated into a few languages I think.

[midivydale]

This thread is brilliant and has made me determined to only speak Swedish, it is hard as I constantly slip up but I am trying:)

[pripolla]

The bookshop on Great Marlborough Street was Grant and Cutler. They are now located at Foyles on Charing Cross. Bought a few good bilingual Portuguese/English books there.

[VALFR59]

Hi Monkey

We have 2 couple of friends who are in the same situation than yours (French and English parents). The best rule seems definitely: one parent = one language , and pretend "you don't understand " when the answer is in English (off course helps her if she doesn't know how to say her opinion in French).

My sister is married with a German and they live in M?nchen. She also use this rule (she speaks only french with my 4 years old nephew, and after difficult time at around 2,5/3 years old, it's much better and easier now). It's hard I know !! as like you, her connection to France is reduced to famlily now as she lives there for 15 years. But it's really important for french grand-parents to be able to communicate with their sweet grand-children (my parents are very worry about it and they are afraid to miss things with my nephew). When it's difficult, keeps in mind that your daughter will thank you a lot when she will be a bilingual student/young lady, without really had to work hard for it! (lucky are they those children :) !

You can watch small Tv programm in French on you tube (charlotte aux fraises, Mon petit Poney , oui-oui, disney princess, or old cartoons we watched on our time like "Au pays de Candy", "les cit?s d'Or"etc!). You can go on gulli.fr wich is a famous kids channel on french TV (or Tiji.fr).

For my work, I am used to go at "The European book shop" (www.europeanbookshop.com) close to Picadilly, 5 Warwick Street Soho, London W1B 5LU. I've saw that they have a lot a children french books and educationnal books.

There is quite a lot of French au pair in the aera, you could ask to a nice one to babysitt your daughter when you need a babysitter. I've heard There is also "la Jolie ronde "(a french toddler group) in Dulwich.

We have the opposite "problem" at home...too much French speaking ! as My husband and I are both french. That's why we avoided french schools/nurserys/nannies and " french areas" in London to live :) (as we are in London just for few years).

If you fancy You can come home to borrow us for few weeks some french stories books (my son is currently a Tchoupi addict...and we have dozen... so he will not be upset to lend one of his others stories books like "le petit chaperon rouge, la belle au bois dormant etc!" . We also have few Oui-Oui in french DVD but don't know if it's girly :)

Don't hesitate if it could help! I am at home usually on fridays or on WE.

Bon courage! ?? va aller avec le fran?ais !

Val?rie

[dirty tree]

Hej midivydale,

It's a great way for your OH to learn Svenska too. He can learn as your baby learns and by the time your LO is fluent hopefully so will he.

I have found this to be true in my case .Although i have learnt lots of odd words that one wouldn't really use in everyday situations such as snutte filten - excuse the spelling!

I myself grew up in an italian speaking household.It's an amazing thing to find yourself at 10 years old being able to speak and understand fully another language without ever having studied it.

Har det bra!

[njc97]

Monkey - I'm not sure I'd worry. We're not bilingual but I had a long conversation with a friend of mine who is. He only speaks German to his children while his wife only uses English (they live in England). Now although his 3 year old clearly understands everything said to him in German, he never uses it himself. Apparently this is exactly the same as my friend, only in reverse. He grew up in Germany with his dad speaking English to him. Until 6 or 7, he clearly understood English but never used it. Then suddenely (and apparently it was almost overnight) he started talking to his Dad in English and was fluent.

[Sanne Panne]

I agree about not forcing your kids to reply in your language (although I think resentment isn't necessarily the most likely outcome) but to be as strict as possible about yourself speaking your language only to your child, 95-100% when you're 1:1 and at least 50-75% when in company. Books, Youtube and songs are a decent alternative for additional native speakers.

[Pugwash]

Hubby's father spoke to him exclusively in Polish, his mother in English. First words were in Polish. Went to english speaking school but did Polish Saturday School and Polish Scouts. In adulthood spoke a mixture of Polish and English to his father. We went to POland for a holiday and although he could speak language fluently, found it difficult to read in Polish. Still speaks in POlish to friends and aquaintances. Our daughter knows a few words of Polish, hubby decided that she was more english than polish so did not push the lanaguage.

[Sol]

She is still young. Perseverance is the key, keep speaking french to her and try to stick to it.

Get her movies or cartoons in french. She will be speaking more french when she is 4