Bakerloo Line extension petition through Camberwell and Peckham

[JamesViktor]

I have noticed on this thread though, people only seem to care about East Dulwich! If nothing goes through East Dulwich there is no point in having it at all!

[BrandNewGuy]

JamesViktor Wrote:

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> I have noticed on this thread though, people only

> seem to care about East Dulwich! If nothing goes

> through East Dulwich there is no point in having

> it at all!

Perhaps because it's the East Dulwich Forum.

[KidKruger]

James are you a detective by any chance ?

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm not sure that's true. I personally think that Camberwell has a rightful claim for any extension of the Bakerloo line and if it was only to be extended that far, it would be a big win. Not least because so many bus routes pass through the green and it would relieve congestion and improve congestion for a large part of SE London.

[JamesViktor]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I'm not sure that's true. I personally think that

> Camberwell has a rightful claim for any extension

> of the Bakerloo line and if it was only to be

> extended that far, it would be a big win. Not

> least because so many bus routes pass through the

> green and it would relieve congestion and improve

> congestion for a large part of SE London.

Not my part :(. But I think Camberwell is too central for it to stop there.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Camberwell is too central for a tube station. As opposed to the rest of central london you mean? The tube is meant to serve high density urban populations such as Camberwell. It's centrality is exactly what makes it a good candidate. It's also a cross roads for most of SE London and massively overcrowded / congested.

[cle]

I think he meant terminate there, rather than have a station.

I agree, it's the typical South London tube situation of terminating too soon. I doubt the Victoria line could handle further than Brixton, but the Bakerloo is dead half the time. You'd at least want to get to zone 3, say Forest Hill or Lewisham, for example.

Any further out, you'd not want to sit on a hot little toy train but a proper one.

[JamesViktor]

cle Wrote:

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> I think he meant terminate there, rather than have

> a station.

>

> I agree, it's the typical South London tube

> situation of terminating too soon. I doubt the

> Victoria line could handle further than Brixton,

> but the Bakerloo is dead half the time. You'd at

> least want to get to zone 3, say Forest Hill or

> Lewisham, for example.

>

> Any further out, you'd not want to sit on a hot

> little toy train but a proper one.

No, all tube lines should go to Zone 6. I do not like "proper trains" the tube is a symbol for London and therefore should go to the edges of all the outer boroughs, like Slade Green in mine!

[cle]

I think tubes work best up to about 3/4. Any longer and you want proper trains which don't stop much in zones 2/3 - much like how Paris's Metro and RER are very distinct in their scopes. But London is a lot more contradictory and random.

[JamesViktor]

cle Wrote:

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> I think tubes work best up to about 3/4. Any

> longer and you want proper trains which don't stop

> much in zones 2/3 - much like how Paris's Metro

> and RER are very distinct in their scopes. But

> London is a lot more contradictory and random.

Do not tell me what I want. I don't want "proper trains" that "do not stop much" I want tubes in all zones that stop in all zones between 6 and 1 and then back to 6!

[Jeremy]

Well you don't have one, do you? And you're not going to get one unless you move.

[cle]

And I wasn't personally telling you 'what you want' JamesViktor:

" Any longer and you want proper trains"

was clearly the royal 'you', as in 'one'. Not you yourself. So pipe down.

And feel free to set up a Slade Green Forum if you feel the zone 2/3 chat doesn't meet your geographical needs, clue's in the name...

[njc97]

James, one doesnt want tubes that go to zone 6. They're really slow, so unsuitable for coming in from that distance. "Proper" trains are much better.

[cle]

Strong work.

[Zebedee Tring]

Perhaps I'm being na?ve, but isn't the East Dulwich Forum basically for discussion about issues that affect East Dulwich, as opposed to Slade Green, Pratts Bottom etc? I'm happy to go on at length about my yoof growing up in Walthamstow and the gang warfare in Woodford Green, but I'm assuming that I would be told pretty swiftly to post on a Walthamstow or Boys From Da Woodford Green Hood MB

[Earl Aelfheah]

Boris confirmed "plans to extend the tube in South East London" at the 'State of London' debate the other day apparently. I am fairly sure it will happen *eventually*. I really hope that when it's time does come it benefits the people who live in SE London and isn't just a big public subsidy for property developers to create 'investment properties' along the Old Kent Road.

[antantant]

I wonder what the news is?!

[Earl Aelfheah]

I imagine it involves a huge development of 'luxury' 1 and 2 bed flats and a two fingered gesture to those already living in SE London.

[chellbirdse15]

Z you are right... its my understanding from old that they are unable to dig a tunnel for two reasons on the water table is very high in this part of town due to the River flowing under the towns ... and secondly there a number of black death burial sites by the church, the wishing well areas etc... I know that they used to have a tram and trolley bus routes, and think that they would have to do what they have and make it over ground. It would be nice though.

[James Barber]

Hi chellbirdse15,

You were correct but modern tunnelling methods allow such tunnelling through SE London.

In fact the last extension of the Bakerloo line was started and then sadly stopped early 1950;s due to economic situation - not due to soil conditions.

I'm delighted to have nudged the Labour administration agreeing to campaign for two branches of the line - Camberwell * OKR.

[picmicnic]

Hi James

Can you provide any more details about the proposed routes for both the Camberwell and OKR lines?

Attached is the London PTAL map for SE London (taken from http://maptube.org/map.aspx?mapid=131) overlaid with my best guess as to the proposed routes based on

a) one line through Camberwell, the other through OKR

b) the stations for each line being based roughly on the options presented in the 2005?06 TLF Bakerloo line extension proposal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakerloo_line_extension_to_Camberwell).

Is this what is being considered?

Thanks

Mike

Note, in the attached photo

Brown line = New Bakerloo line extension

Black line = Existing Bakerloo line or the Hayes line

Red area of map = PTAL score of 1 = Poor transport links

Green area of map = PTAL score of 6 = Excellent transport links

[cle]

I'd think that a second Camberwell branch would be relatively short - to be an inner city service and allow less tubes (terminus closer to town).

Maybe Walworth Road/Burgess Park, Camberwell Green, Denmark Hill (v close to each other, but a must for connections), East Dulwich, Dulwich Library, Forest Hill - maybe Catford. That's surely enough.

The other one I'd not send past Lewisham - taking over St Johns station for good and getting rid of the New Cross overground branch, and sending those trains elsewhere on the route.

[edcam]

Further to James' comment, an interesting article saying Councillors support two routes

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7741

[cle]

TfL are surely the ones to decide though. I don't think local councils have much clout on issues like this, beyond some diluted lobbying ability. Do TfL care, when it's the developers who call the tune?

Perhaps a compromise route would be down the OKR but then swing south to Peckham Library/Centre and then onwards east again?

Totally misses Camberwell though - and probably too far north for Peckham Rye station too, hence not great in terms of interchanges.

[picmicnic]

I don't get why people think it would be of significant benefit to have the Bakerloo line go to Camberwell / Walworth Road. Looking at the PTAL scores (http://maptube.org/map.aspx?mapid=131) - it looks like Camberwell / Walworth Road already have great transport links.

However other areas of Southwark (Nunhead, Honor Oak Park, The areas surrounding the southern end of Peckham rye park, Forrest hill) do have poor transport links. I don?t get why these areas are not being focused on.