parking ticket on LL, ?120 ...

[Brendan]

Yeah.

Get 'em off the road and leave it open for me to enjoy!

[snorky]

Its the local traders who bleat loudest about restrictions being enforced and efectivley ensure that your bus is delayed day after day after day...

[lillyanginger]

Guys, I never disputed the guilt factor. I am ok about being caught (ish).

But do you really think ?120 is ok to be fined for parking wrongly - and I would like to add I was NOT in anybodys way, sticking over edges or in a buslane.

Is it inflation? Where is the money going? Clearly not in better local transport and extending our services. If that was the case, perhaps I would feel (ever so slightly) better.

[seanmlow]

I have insider knowledge - there will be a huge overhaul of parking in ED, especially Lordship Lane.

[missd]

These fines are meant to discourage folks from doing stuff. if the fine was only ?10 it wouldnt be very effective would it?

so yes, i think its's ok to be fined ?60 (or ?120) for not parking correctly.

[Sandperson]

seanmlow Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have insider knowledge - there will be a huge

> overhaul of parking in ED, especially Lordship

> Lane.

Sean, does it involve land mines?

[lillyanginger]

You have just made me smile...will probably refrain from parking on LL with the landmines coming...

[dave]

I suspect that the generally relaxed and flexible approach to parking on Lordship Lane is one of the reasons why you have a thriving high street there.

Stop people getting there in their cars without it being a complete ballache and you stop a lot of the potential custom on the high street.

[RosieH]

clearly off topic of the ?120 question, but do people really need to park on LL. I manage my shopping quite nicely without needing to drive round there - good workout for my arms too. Isn't that why all we bleeding-heart ED-ers spend so much on worthy jute bags? kind of defeats the point if you're just loading them into the back of your car

[seanmlow]

dave - precisely.

And before people claim folk with use the bus - believe me they won't.

The council need to realise people like using their cars!

[kford]

A taste of things to come, when the Parking Tax kicks in. There's no excuse for parking in an operating bus lane, but most fines are for genuine mistakes like getting late back to the meter. After all, we all know the rules.

Just to put it in context, someone on one of those 'Cops with Cameras' shows the other night got fined ?120 for driving without insurance, MOT and while disqualified. And they managed to assault the copper too. Fair, eh?

[????]

How qauint Rosie to believe that the good people of East Dulwich alone keep LL expensive trinket and high value add foodypalaces afloat

[benjaminty]

I think I have the answer ... there's been a blue astra outside my house(ish) on a yellow line for over 2 weeks now. From what I can work out the owner, or person errm "working on it", has just bunged the local parking devils on mopeds some moolah and the car just stays there untouched.

Wonder how much they accept for a blind eye?

[monica]

Where id the obstruction take place on Lordship lane Lilly? Was it a double yellow line?

[Ratpack]

I back you lillyanginger. It's stealth tax and all the people complaining about how you shouldn't be parking in the wrong place obviously don't drive on a daily basis round London. All you need is to make a couple of mistakes in a month and you are seriously financially suffering. If you forget to pay your congestion charge twice in a month that's ?120 fine. Park in the wrong spot because you are busy and your mind is elsewhere and it's another fine. Bus lanes/ box junctions/ turning the wrong way/ speed cameras. And no it's not necessarily because someone is a bad driver but because when you drive a lot, in different and new places you don't know where you are going and aren't used to the roads and their quirks.

I think if you drive every day then fair play - you have a right to criticise but if you are not an every day frequent driver then just wait until you are! You will see what it is like. We are filmed everywhere we go now and once you have been fined there is no appeal.

[SeanMacGabhann]

or hey - what if I forget to pay my tube fare?

Or my bus fare?

It's a stealth tax when they fine me for not paying for public transport!! It only takes a couple of mistakes and I'm paying hundred of pounds!!!!! I'm a busy worker and my mind is elsewhere

those quirky "double yellow lines" - man if only they made them a standard drivers could understand

"my mind is elsewhere" - EXACTLY the sort of person I want behind a large f***ing car just so they can complain they didn't see me crossing the road

and by your logic if you drive every day and don't use public transport you can't criticise public transport??

Moses wept

PS - I do drive and have a clean license. Have done for 15 years although it's true I no longer drive in London. I have NO objection whatsoever to people driving - my beef is with the adolescent whinings of children who complain when they are caught doing something wrong

[????]

Sean - park on a red route or double yellow, then fine i'll accept it but I have had and got off two parking tickets that were completley unjustified. In one case I could prove that my ticket was wrong on the other I had independent witnesses who were willing to swear in court that my story was right as they could see how blatantly unfair my ticket was - I won't bore you with the actual stories - but in both cases I was absolutely in the right and had to go through several stages of escalating fines and threats before both cases were dropped with a curt "our not pursuing this matters any further is not an admittance of our culpability(sp?)" type letter. Considerable stress, effort and annoyance without any recompense (an apology would have done) in either case...that's what happens with revenue hungry councils employing incentivised wardens.......

[SeanMacGabhann]

???? - over-enthusiastic wardens exist and are definitely a major pain. I know of too many people who have to go through the same process you describe and I feel for you

but the case being described here is someone who already admits they knew they were in the wrong. If I was so minded I could see a connection between the number of people who take a similar attitude to the rules and the subsequent aggressive pursuit of motorists (many innocent) by councils. If the general public were more civic minded then the councils would have less of a footing on this..

[????]

Where you and I differ sean is in your belief that councils and politicians are civic minded in the 21st century compared to say an avergae motorist...they by and large are not. they seek power and money, largely through party mechanisms and intrigue and largely disregard the public apart from at elections. Unfortunately the phrase "those that seek power are the least suitable to wield it" it rings true in both my personal encounters with politicians (even at student level)and on the national stage. Your ongoing trust in them is admirable but for me I can absolutely understand the growing disengagement with politics.....and this, like MM, has led me to Libeterianism, I think that I am best suited to decide how to conduct my life and spend my money not some 'professional' politician. maybe, sad for someomeone who was once an idealist but they aways disaapoint on amssive scale with their vanity, sleaziness, petty corruption, 'intrigue' and incompetence.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don/'t think I do hold them up as the ideal structure - as you say - "those that seek power are the least suitable to wield it". I've always believed that too - so I'm not as disillusioned as you. And I believe it was ever thus

So now what? Do I believe the individual is best able to decide? Definitely not... so I'm stuck between an inefficient council and an often selfish joe public

But leaving aside councils ineptitude.. I do believe that parking and traffic restrictions are important. Doesn't mean I agree with exactly how they are implemented. But I know what they are. I know how to avoid penalty fines. I know how to vote

So I will never complain to anyone if I have done something wrong and expect sympathy. That's my point.

[kford]

Sean, - read ratpack's email again. That's what it's like if you drive in London, even very occasionally, like I do. Even the most careful motorist will get caught out. You say you don't anymore, so you can't really comment.

By the way, plenty of people 'forget' to pay their TfL fares without recompense - figures out last week suggest that fare-dodging accounts for a whopping ?52.3m lost in 2007, including ?6.4m on bloody bendy buses alone. Why not go after them? Fine them ?120, it's a more direct theft of money that would otherwise be used to expand transport in London. Oh, no, that would be too hard - these people are too hard to track down, not wearing number plates and being registered to DVLA and all that.

And pounds is on the money, yet again. Money from council parking fines - TfL bus lane and Red Route patrols aside - fills a huge gap in the council's budget. It's easy money, taken from soft targets who pay without complaint, generally without the need for police or courts or restraint. Ker-ching.

[????]

Yup, absolutell Kford - anyone else notice how crowded the Bendy Bus 12s are nowadays compared to the old 12s? Full of dodgers - the experienced ones have even got a technique if the bus gets targeted by 'swot' squad, move to back, wait for the confrotation when all the swoters start to get together in supportand then exit, then walk tothe next stop...yup, motorists who pay a fortune in taxes in so many ways already are a very easy target for Livingstone, TFL and local councils to get their money to waste on whatever shit's floating their wasteful boat at the moment.

[SeanMacGabhann]

endless drivelly waffle without a point

what? what is it you want??

plenty of people get away with fines on TfL? whoop de do! Same with motorists . Both as bad as each other. What do you want me to say.. I don't have a "side" -

You want me to agree that commuters on public transport get higher fines? Sure, sign me up

Bendy buses still have people who don't pay? oh my days let me have a lie down - next thing you'll be telling me about people who earn more than 500k not paying tax

You want wardens to be policed better so they don't ticket the wrong people - I'm on your side!

But no - apparently "I can't comment". The f@@@ing cheek of it

Stop with the bleeding heart motorist stories ok? I know how to drive. I know what a parking bay looks like. I know how few of them there are. I know how aggresive/illegal warden activity is. I know how to shop without a car. I know how many more cars there are on the road every year (err.. ok not how MANY exactly.. but it's lots). Based on all this and more information I can live my life without feeling like I'm some poor victim. Even when Ken puts the cost of a single tube journey less than 100 yards up to an outrageous ?4 - I don't go falling to my knees bewailing the loss of innocence. It is what it is... I don't pay it, I don't cheat and I don't complain if I get caught anyway... I don't say "well if it was ?1 I would say fair enough but he's taking the piss now so I don't have to worry about the law. Or concentration"

Some of you aren't even talking about motorists any more anyway. It's some weird victim mentality thing about wasting money, councils, Ken et al - as if non-motorists don't have to face the same shite

Cost of motoring - let's have a look

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3776913.stm

ok ok BBC but it's the same story from pretty much any source. So... get over it ok?

[????]

errr, Sean, that's from 2004 get a grip...

[SeanMacGabhann]

ditto your arguments

in 2004 tube travel was a lot cheaper in comparison

by now petrol has gone up a fair bit while tube travel has doubled

once again - I'm not singling out motorists - just pointing out that they are not a special case

Motorists are always pointing out how they would use public transport more if it wasn't much cheaper to use the car - so it seems like that makes motorists the relative winners. So why all the complaining?