BNP ad in Ham & High

[mlteenie]

On R4 just now I heard (I think) the editor of The Ham & High (who have run an ad for the BNP in their paper) say there are parts of London where there are 7 or 8 BNP councillors on some councils.

Really? Where?

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

They are disgusting w@nkers but shutting down debate just helps their cause. You can't close down someone's freedom of speech, just because what they say is revolting, you should exercise your freedom of speech and show the flaws in their twisted thinking instead.

[KalamityKel]

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[mlteenie]

Thanks for your view, KK....

[KalamityKel]

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(sorry dont really want to participate in this thread)

[SeanMacGabhann]

KK - how was Chav's post not positive???

Anyway I tend to agree along the lines of Chav's statement - but I wonder if there does come a point when you think if a group which doesn't believe in freedom of expression get's enough power where has our tolerance got us?

[Keef]

I basically agree with Chav, but why then can an extremist cleric be arrested for preaching hateful shite, but these guys can say what they bloody want?

[lozzyloz]

But where is the debate? Le Penn gave the French a scare simply because people became apathetic and didn't use their vote. Perhaps people here also feel disenfranchised too. Or perhaps they can't be bothered to look beyond the right wing rhetoric and simply believe all the hysterical anti immigrant racist rants they hear.

[Torben Pieknik]

Barking and Dagenham Council have 11 BNP councillors. They only need 5 per cent of the vote to get a seat on the London Assembly. They got over 4 per cent last time and now UKIP has imploded it seems like the BNP will get an Assembly member (maybe 2 if they can get 8 per cent).

[snorky]

Get them into the open and get them talking

[david_carnell]

To answer the original question the biggest BNP presence is the Barking & Dagenham council where they hold 11 of the 50 seats on the council, making them the official opposition to the Labour Party. The Conservatives only have one seat.

I agree with Loz, without debate and explanation of why the BNP are both rascists and how their policies are ridiculous we cannot expect the electorate to merely dismiss them out of hand. They are very clever in the way they play up to the disenfranchised white working-class and aggravate their fears and worries. They won't go away just by sticking our heads in the sand but must be confronted head-on.

Edit: cross post with Torben. Sorry.

[Keef]

I genuinely believe that most UKIP voters wouldn't go for BNP. I personally would never vote UKIP, but I don't think it's entirely fair to label their voters in the same category as the BNP lot. I think a lou of people who have voted UKIP were probably disenchanted with Labour, and probably had their doubts before ticking the box. Voting for BNP is taking a whole new leap.

[Brendan]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I basically agree with Chav, but why then can an

> extremist cleric be arrested for preaching hateful

> shite, but these guys can say what they bloody

> want?

I strongly believe that people should be able to think and say what they like, even if I disagree with it. But then you have the whole conundrum of where odes freedom of speech end a inciting violence start?

[Jah Lush]

Thirty years ago when I was a young man of 20 I went on both of the Rock Against Racism marches with the Anti-Nazi-League and went to both of the gigs at Victoria Park Hackney and Brockwell Park, in Herne Hill/Brixton. In those days we were fighting against the rise of the National Front and their ilk. There is a march for the very same reasons at the end of this month (April 26th if I remember corectly) against the rise of the likes of the BNP.

Don't be apathetic, make a stand against these vile bastards, go on the march and go to the gigs.

Rock Against Racism

[Brendan]

And there Jah has the answer. Let people say what they like. But if you disagree with it don?t be apathetic. You have a responsibility to stand up and have your say. Or face the consequences of living in their world.

[KalamityKel]

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[LizzygotDizzy]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There is a march for the very same

> reasons at the end of this month (April 26th if I

> remember corectly) against the rise of the likes

> of the BNP.

> Don't be apathetic, make a stand against these

> vile bastards, go on the march and go to the

> gigs.

>

> Rock Against Racism

I'll be there! and all of what Jah said. BNP play on fear but I understand that the tossers have actually increased their membership this year through just using the big F word. What a sick world! Is it true that the BNP party actually have some black council members or is that a lie? If so, WTF?

[LizzygotDizzy]

Sorry for being dim but, what does it mean when you leave an (.) mark on a completely blank answer to a thread or reply? Does it mean that you want people to know you are aware of the topic but have chosen to make it known that you do not want to comment, other than to make that fact known? Sorry having a moment, must be all that jogging gone to my head

[KalamityKel]

Don't be confusing the BNP with the National Front they are two very different groups!

[LizzygotDizzy]

Sorry for being dim, yet again, but don't they stand for the same kind of thing?

[LizzygotDizzy]

Whooooops! outed!

[david_carnell]

The Big F word? What's that then.

KKel is very much correct in her assertion in the differences between the National Front and the British National Party however. Whilst the NF's heyday was in the 70s they continue to have a small but worryingly violent presence in the modern British far-right.

The BNP, despite being loathsome, are much more of a political entity. Modern, slick, suited & booted; averse to the type of skin-head, knuckle-draggers that the NF still attracts. Whilst cross-over exists between the two groups the infighting is quite pronounced.

The splinter-groups of both far-left and far-right make for hilarious reading. They all hate each other more than their "true" opponents. Wiki groups like the CPGB or SWP for brilliant examples of electoral incompetence.

[LizzygotDizzy]

F = Fear

Sorry, but to me they are fundamentally the same, except they wear suits and ties and have slicker tongues! And I will do whatever I can to prevent these kind of sickos from reaching power, onward march I say! off to the website to find out details of the march/rally on 29th April Jah was talking about!

[david_carnell]

To the average punter in the street they probably are and it's not something to really get yourself in a tangle over but the history of the far right is littered with splinter groups each with their own peculiar peversions.

See the following: British Democrats; Constitutional Movement; Flag Group; International(?) Third Position; National Democrats; White Democratic Party etc etc etc

To most they can be lumped in all together but the more you learn about them the more you realise they are fighting like ferrets in a sack! You're right insofar as the BNP evolved from the NF and therefore took some of that membership with it ergo they have the same genes if you like.

[Maximay]

Erm...excuse me Ms Dizzy, but I think you need to get your facts right! Nothing wrong with the BNP