Local amateur restaurant critics

[Alan Dale]

removed

[Peckhampam]

I agree. It is the great problem with sites like trip advisor.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Whilst I agree on the general point, and also PeckhamPam's point re: tripadvisor et al, does anybody realistically expect well-written, articulate, more-than-amateurish reviews on a local message board?

To stay with the Locale thread, one or two very negative posts are balanced with a fair amount of, if not high praise, then at least moderate praise and a lot of goodwill. Which makes the original post ironic in that it overlooks anything positive to make a negative point

But then again.....

[*Bob*]

Rules regarding restaurant critique are fairly straightforward here, Alan.

Established restaurants are not as good as they used to be.

New restaurants are not as good as established restaurants, unless (see above)

Little-known restaurants serve the best food around - until other people start going - then they go downhill.

[Sandperson]

Get over yourself Alan. The Locale thread is suprising balanced if you ask me. Just don't read restaurant threads if the way people write annoys you after all we can't all be A A Gill (or would want to be!).

And I love Si Mangia *blows raspberry*.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sandperson - I would have though you would be way too elated to be blowing raspberries at anyone today!

Personally I love a good negative review - Mathew Norman does some corkers, but yes I do prefer when it brings wit to the, erm, table rather than just "ick - me no likee" style prose

[taper]

The Locale discussion is balanced, surprisingly so given how bad it is. Aren't the majority of reviews mediocre to poor because the food around here is mediocre? Apart from a handful of restaurants (Palmerston, Ganapati on a good day, Montpelier if you're hungover) I find the food adequate at best; far better in central and north London.

[Mark]

Alan, you say that people saying 'Si Mangia is way better' is a type of playground praise but your contribution was simply "For Italian try Caravaggio on Camberwell Church St." which isn't exactly telling us about a positive experience you have had is it?

As pointed out it's not a restaurant review site, just local people telling of their experiences and I think having a go at them for their quality of reviews is rather elitist, confusingly so when your "review" was just eight words suggesting another restaurant.

[edited once]

[Alan Dale]

removed

[Cassius]

This is an informal local forum and when someone posts about a restaurant I want to know what sort of experience they actually had - whether good or bad. We all comment bearing in mind our own expectations and attitudes, we like/dislike different things, surely it is important to be honest.

Perhaps the problem is that we all expect to have a good time when we go out to eat at a restaurant - otherwise we wouldn't have gone there, so perhaps that is why a disappointing meal can be more memorable than a good one - it's the outcome we didn't expect and therefore feel cheated.

[lenadee]

anyone who comments on the price of food, clearly cannot afford to eat out! this probably has something to do with the fact that they are spending all their money on living in ED!! in fact people who regard themselves as critics of any discription really need to take the stick out of their a!*@!!!!!! dont eat out if your going to complain, one should only make comments if they relate to a positive experiance.

really ED theatrical critics get over yourselves

lots of love

xxx

[*Bob*]

Unfortunately the British obsession with being too pansy-assed to complain in public ("It's fine - thank you") is now accompanied by an equal desire to complain (anonymously) as soon as they're out of the door and on the laptop.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Another take on it is that if the livelihoods of people are in good hands, then negative feedback can be used to turn things around and avert problems in the future

Green & Blue and the SeaCow are two business that responded maturely to criticism (some of it of the overly-negative type highlighted by Alan) and appear to be doing well on the back of it.

Nothing but positive reviews lose their meaning - does anybody take the reviews in Living South seriously for example? But broadly speaking I think I'm with Alan - don't be a guerilla critic, doing an ananymous hit and run. Make it part of a constructive dialogue. Which I think many people on here do

[Asset]

lenadee Wrote:

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> anyone who comments on the price of food, clearly

> cannot afford to eat out! this probably has

> something to do with the fact that they are

> spending all their money on living in ED!! in fact

> people who regard themselves as critics of any

> discription really need to take the stick out of

> their a!*@!!!!!! dont eat out if your going to

> complain, one should only make comments if they

> relate to a positive experiance.

> really ED theatrical critics get over yourselves

> lots of love

> xxx

That's not strictly true. Even people rolling in money want to feel that they are getting value for that money so talking about price is valid.

[Brendan]

lenadee Wrote:

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> anyone who comments on the price of food, clearly

> cannot afford to eat out!

Don?t mean to be rude or anything (well I probably do) but that is the biggest load of cock I?ve ever heard in my life.

[Marmora Man]

Many of the critiques of Locale were, reasonably balanced, many were also positive - albeit about a perceived competitor - Si Mangia. I certainly was and, I like to think, my comments on Locale were constructive criticism - balancing the positive with the less positive.

[HonaloochieB]

lenadee Wrote:

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> anyone who comments on the price of food, clearly

> cannot afford to eat out!

Sir Alan?

[bon3yard]

Its only been open for 5 mins, restaurants nearly always take a good month or two to get the kitchen running at full pelt.

[SteveT]

Lenadee I hate to complain in or about restaurants or any other business, but I like value for money and if I get that at one place and not another I tell the forum about the good ones.

The bad ones may be mentioned by other forumistas and I may add my version, but to say if you complain about the cost of a meal you cannot afford to eat out, is certainly not the case with me.

I am a critic for good places much more so than the bad, but why not say if you have been ripped off by a garage, a plumber or a restaurant.

If you place the facts on the forum it is for the readers to decide what to do about that information, just as a business may benefit from me discovering a product they stock via the forum, which has happened on several occasions, and I tell them so too. I have also taken print outs of threads they appear on and they are usually interested enough to ignore you, whilst they read it.

I shall continue to praise the great and good, and slag off the toads who do not give good consumer service, negative comments are invaluable if sensible and honest, to all wise businessmen.

[4hw]

Right then. As one of the more critical posters about my Locale experience I feel I ought to respond.

Alan Dale Wrote:

"The truth is that in spite of being expensive,

Locale is popular and I suspect it will be

succesful. If one of you more eloquent amateur

critics could explain why it works, how it works

and why it is such an asset to this aspirational

area of Peckham then I'd be glad to read it"

It's too early to say whether or not the new 'East Dulwich' (I agree with you that it's more Peckham) branch of Locale will be successful, and certainly too early to say whether or not it is popular. Any new restaurant launched well will attract a decent level of custom in its first weeks because people will be keen to try it out. So it's really not up to any critic, amateur or otherwise, to analyse the 'success' of this venture (yet). In any event, is restaurant criticism really about identifying why commercially successful establishments do well? I think most people would agree that commercial success does not always mean good value, tasty food.

Secondly, I do not buy your premise that it is easier to be negative than positive. Take your supporting evidence for this: "You can rely on just detailing events, errors, omissions and comparisons to superior experiences. The ease of preparing such criticism attracts allcomers. Anyone who's had the slightest complaint about a meal can attempt restaurant criticism with confidence and gusto."

You could equally say that it is easier to be positive than negative by relying on comparisons to inferior experiences and things that went right with the meal. It's clearly the case that people are more likely to report a negative experience than a positive one - but it has ever been thus, and that fact simply makes business owners more eager to please, which can hardly be a bad thing.

"I believe that where livlihoods are at stake people should be reluctant to publish anecdotal negative experiences for fear of excessively tarnishing reputations. Any such a post should be heavily caveated with 'perhaps I was unlucky but' or 'I don't know that this is always the case but' or something to that effect. "

Any report on a forum such as this is clearly a description of a single, personal experience. I don't think it is up to the poster to make this explicitly clear with each post. The value of 'citizen' reviews is in their aggregation - yes, one should be more hesitant to rely on a single negative review on e.g. London Eating/EDF than a national paper before writing off a restaurant, but one can take fairly seriously 10 negative views saying more or less the same thing, especially if no-one has a good word to say (not the case with Locale).

I think you are being unnecessarily defensive of the poor quality dining experience available at Locale.

lenadee: I think you are totally wrong, and your comments are pretty offensive. Would you be happy to pay the same for the food at Thai Corner Cottage as e.g. The Fat Duck (not that I've eaten there - just an example of a michelin-starred place with prices approximately 20 times as high as TCC)? Value remains important in dining no matter how rich you are. You seem to suggest that unless you're rich enough to pay any imaginable restaurant bill (very few are) you should eat at home 365 days a year. Are you completely mad?

[Alan Dale]

removed

[taper]

"Middle of the road banality" would indeed have been very welcome. But I was served at Pizza Express: I knew Pizza Express. Pizza Express was a friend of mine. Mr Dale, Locale is no Pizza Express.

[SeanMacGabhann]

aspiring to have a MOR venue?

self-editing not once but twice?

Asking people to be more positive?

Me agreeing with much he says?

I'm convinced Alan's account has been hijacked

[????]

I go to a restaurant, I'm disappointed, I tell everyone, I'm an amateur...

[JesusCappuccino]

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