New organic greengrocer

[EDL]

The lady at the laundromat next to William Rose told me today that a new organic greengrocer is going in where the tyre shop used to be (on the corner opposite Franklins).

Can anyone confirm that?

[Spangles30]

Over priced organic food shops - whatever next? It's becoming a real money spinner in this area. One can buy quite reasonably priced organic food in LIDL and Morrisons.

[SeanMacGabhann]

someone on the forum is going to Paris soon aren't they? Something they won't see there is people complaining about overpriced shops selling bread - because people over there seem to like and value decent bread

Why open up a business at all if all people want to do is go to Lidl or Morrisons? Moses wept

[RosieH]

but Sean, isn't the bread at a fixed price in Paris? it was when I lived there - 3F / baguette - fixed government price so they don't have to eat cake

but your point stands nonetheless - we're used to spending the lowest proportion of our income ever on food - and feel cheated that everything isn't at Iceland prices (even though we don't like Iceland). For all the gastroporn on tv, and the fantastic restaurants that now grace the country, we're still not a nation of food lovers.

[SeanMacGabhann]

and imagine if there was a government fixed price in the UK? Marmora Man and ???? would implode!!

One caveat re: organic however. I've said it before so apologies but I'm not overly fussed about organic - with meat maybe because it encapsulates animal welfare but otherwise I'm not too bothered.

I understand the aspiration but labelling something organic doesn't make it tasty, healthy or "nice" - I have drunk some organic juices and eaten some organic breads that are just plain revolting

But organic or not, good breads can be a thing of wonder. I still like nasty white sliced for morning toast tho'

[Spangles30]

Sean, you appear to have a vested interest in defending the local over priced shops, many of which to be blunt, sell utter tat at vastly over inflated prices.

"Why open up a business at all if all people want to do is go to Lidl or Morrisons? Moses wept".

I go to Morrisons and LIDL because I ---shock! horror!!--- cannot AFFORD to shop in most of the shops near me in East Dulwich.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Spangles - an interest yes, but not a vested one

I take your point about budgets etc but I wouldn't put a good bakery in the same bracket as the various trinket shops that abound

Income and how it's spent turns out to be an emotive subject - I do ok now but for most of working life have been less fortunate - so I can only talk from my experience and couple that with more abstract concepts. Inevitably some people will just take that as me preaching but I'm only trying to talk

regardless of income, most people have some idea about getting what one pays for? Even the youngest kid knows that they want Coca Cola and not Panda Cola - and no amount of pleading from cash-poor parent is going to convince them.

Ditto loaf of bread - most people, if not everyone, can, at least once, spend ?2 on a decent loaf of bread instead of the average of ?1 in supermarkets. Yes you can get bread for much cheaper but you need about 6 slices just to feel like you've eaten something

So if a place does sell decent bread (and Morrisons have their own upmarket/pricey selection too) what's to complain about? Or should we just have every shop be a Lidl/Tesco

[Spangles30]

Good bakery or not, I find it astonishing that most of the loaves of which you are referring cost about ?3. There is no way bread in France costs as much as that. Plus people tend to buy baguette sticks there.

I speak as someone who eats a very healthy diet, but I shop around for it and economise. My village bakery bread costs ?1.29 a loaf in the supermarkets and is yeast free and 'organic'. It is not once of those ?1 loaves of which you are referring. I would like to try and get bread of that quality and that PRICE in the North Cross Rd "market".

I am fed up of ED trying to be 'organic' in such a poncey way. Look at the places in Brighton which are 'organic' etc and far more 'down to earth' with character. Sorry too tired to expand upon what I mean.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I have no real quarrel with you Spangles and if you are tired I'm not going to antagonise you further!

Have a cup of tea and look out the window

I don't think I mentioned ?3 loaves but no matter - the sun is out

I think we should let the place open before we declare it as poncey (whatever that means) and definitely "organic"

I don't even think there ARE that many poncey and organic places in ED anyway - it seems that way sometimes maybe

[Sue]

Spangles30 Wrote:

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Look at the places in Brighton which

> are 'organic' etc and far more 'down to earth'

> with character. Sorry too tired to expand upon

> what I mean.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The "organic" blah blah Infinity Foods shop in Brighton (separate company from the bulk buying one, I recently discovered) is mega expensive. I went in there a couple of weeks ago.

Virtually everything they had I could get cheaper in somewhere like SMBS - which I had always thought was quite pricy :)

[Bartoche]

Hey what's up forumites!?

I am French, and yes I like frog legs but above all I adore bread!!! So let me share a bit of light on this. La baguette is at fixed price (between 30 & 40p?) but yes at that price we are talking about the most basic (nearly industrial) of them, and its equivalent is at the same price here in our London supermarkets. Now if you are un fin gourmet in France when it comes to bread be prepared to pay ?3 and more for a special loaf... So for a decent everyday pain de campagne you need to hit it at ?1.50.

The problem is being Londoners everything is over priced so we are very wary and of course with the organic trend (bio on the other side of the channel) it makes it even worse!!!!

For me there is no price for a good baguette, can't do it everyday unfortunately but now & then...

Laters ;-)

[Torben Pieknik]

Pretty traditional is an organic greengrocers and it neither pricey or poncey. I tend to get food from supermarkets because of a lack of time. But when I do get the chance I get veg and fruit from pretty traditional. Not because it is organic, but because it tastes better, the fruit is ripe rather than rock hard and shock horror for an "Over priced organic food shop" is cheaper than the supermarkets.

[Nero]

I eat organic because I believe it is better for the environment, not necessarily better for me. I do, though, think the fashion for organic will wear off as prices rise and as (some) purveyors of such produce continue to rip off their customers.

[Cassius]

I buy organic fruit and veg from Riverford - that way I am supporting a local farmer from the area I come from in Devon and I am contributing towards the salaries of several people whom I have actually met - not the feeling you get in Sainsburys.

[Siduhe]

Another vote for Riverford here - the local Southwark distributor is great - had a nice chat with him recently about their plans to increase the amount of deliverys to ED by cycle rather than by van. The plan is to reach 70% of deliveries by end of next year.

[bawdy-nan]

I don't mind the delicious bread from the stall on Northcross road being a bit more expensive than the soft pap from the supermarket.

Its a totally different kind of food.

I'll usually buy one loaf and we'll eat it over the next couple of days and feel its a delicious treat, or I'll build a meal around it with some salad or soup or cheese or something. If it lasts beyond total freshness that kind of bread is fantastic for toasting.

I much prefer the fruit and veg from Pretty Traditional to the supermarket mostly becasue there's often seasonal surprises and its very fresh. Chris simply won't let you out of the shop with something ropey. On the very few occassions one of his staff has bunged us a dodgy bag of bobby beans we've mentioned it the next time we've been in and got a replacement.

I think those kind of shops are best when you can get there everyday - you get bargains and get to work out whats good and in season. Same with the butchers and the fishmongers. Obviously, thats very tricky when you can't get there during the day.

Sometimes food from those shops are more expensive than supermarkets but it really depends what you buy and how you build your meals. You can live much more cheaply and gourmet style by looking at whats good value that day or by buying something you mightn't be able to ge in a supermarket. I've never got free fish bones to make stock from Sainsbury's, or mixed game, or ham hock r excellent advice about whats good that day. If I shop well rather than skedaddle round the supermarket panic buying I get better value and don't throw stuff away.

Thats probably as much down to my hatred of shopping as much as anything else.

[HonaloochieB]

Agree with all you've said there Bawdy-nan but most of all for the phrase 'bobby beans' I'm not sure exactly what you mean, I'm guessing there's a certain amount of gist involved, but what grocer could argue if you went back and accused him of selling you beans that were 'bobby'. Well done.

[SimonM]

?3 for bread eh?

Ocado are currenly offering Pain Poilane at ?10.50 a loaf! :))

[TJ]

Best bread in the world though!

SimonM Wrote:

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> ?3 for bread eh?

>

> Ocado are currenly offering Pain Poilane at ?10.50

> a loaf! :))

[Marmora Man]

I'm with Sean MacG here.

Food is an important part of our lives - like Sean I do OK these days and can afford the foodie treats available on LL. But on a lower income I did search out value for money good food. If life were to change for the worse good food - albeit cheaper cuts and styles would remain important. Spending ?1.00 on crap food wastes ?1.00, spend ?1.00 on two decent potatoes and some cheese and you have a tasty nutritious meal.

I don't go for the organic argument and won't pay an automatic premium for the label - but when shopping in Pretty Traditional, William Rose and elsewhere I'll choose what looks good or tastes good (if I'm allowed a taster - which is another good argument for not shopping in supermarkets - you never get a taster). Sometimes organic, sometimes not.

I would only differ from Sean MacG on sliced white for breakfast - how could you! It becomes just a platform for something else and has no flavour, taste of texture to savour. Blackbird bakery sourdough bread (?2.50 a loaf - lasts the MM household three days) toasted with just a sliver of butter is part of breakfast heaven.

[Asset]

I do organic and have done as far as possible for about 15 years now, much easier over the last 5 years as it has become more 'fashionable'.

It is not for the taste, although often that is a side benefit, but mainly to do with not wanting to eat food - particularly salad stuffs - that are bathed in several different chemicals. There is also, as Nero mentions, the environmental aspect to take into consideration.

Anyway this subject has been done to death on here already and each to their own. Personally I am prepared to pay a little more for organic fruit and veg if it is good quality and not been flown in from Kenya.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I didn't say it was a good thing! Just still something I can't shake - it has to have more butter than bread tho - mmmmmmmm

[SimonM]

>>Best bread in the world though! <<

Have to disagree - to me it is classic "Emperor's New Clothes. You used to be able to buy it at a couple of LL outlets (you may still be able to for all I know) and, having read a Grauniad eulogy about the stuff I thought I would give it a try...hmmm...not repeated the experience and would not buy it again at even a sensible price...

Anyway for ?10.50 I'd not expect merely a half-decent loaf but also a winsome maiden clad in white silk hotpants to serve it up on a polished teak tray, sultrily ask me if I fancied "a portion" and then offer to deflea the cat as well....:))

[Spangles30]

Personally I consider Poilane bread very over rated. I have, on occasions, bought quarter loaves for about ?2.50 because so many people wax lyrical about said bread. It's OK...nothing special. I'd have Village Bakery loaves every time over Poilane, and they are much cheaper. Having said that I don't gorge on lots of bread as I prefer rice cakes and ryvitas, or even Pitta bread. The shop opp. east Dulwich Deli does 3 bags of fab wholemeal pittas for 99P. I highly recommend it. I have a while freezer drawer of these on hand. Inexpensive and only have about 3 ingredients in them.

My husband broke a tooth eating the bread - well, a veneer, to be exact - from the North Cross Rd stall. He thinks it might have been a bit of stone from an olive!

[Shaggy]

Actually it is not considered the Emperor's New Clothes in France -- there it is considered the king of breads, far superior to the modern baguette. But stick with your industrial Kingsmill if you like.

By the way, have you noticed that the phrase `The Emperor's New Clothes' is more often used by pompous fools who think they are more clever than everyone else, not by people who can see the wood for the trees? I have.

SimonM Wrote:

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> >>Best bread in the world though!

> Have to disagree - to me it is classic "Emperor's

> New Clothes. You used to be able to buy it at a

> couple of LL outlets (you may still be able to for

> all I know) and, having read a Grauniad eulogy

> about the stuff I thought I would give it a

> try...hmmm...not repeated the experience and would

> not buy it again at even a sensible price...

>

> Anyway for ?10.50 I'd not expect merely a

> half-decent loaf but also a winsome maiden clad in

> white silk hotpants to serve it up on a polished

> teak tray, sultrily ask me if I fancied "a

> portion" and then offer to deflea the cat as

> well....:))