Scrabulous has gone from Facebook

[Mogs]

Just wondered how many people on the Forum (apart from me ofcourse) are deeply upset by this

[mightyroar]

me! really upset. live games, league table....................

cant believe its over between us

[Mogs]

I know I had 4 Tourny games going and I was looking at moving back up a division - GUTTED

[Huguenot]

I understand that it's removal is the precursor to the launch of the legitimate version. If that is the case, then I reckon Hasbro have behaved reasonably in letting these two guys have it up for as long as they did.

Scrabulous generated cash from Scrabble by delivering paid-for advertising to users accessing a stolen game. They piggy-backed on Hasbro's marketing investment to reap undeserved rewards. They even stole the name.

I'm a big believer in copyright - I think the rewards for ideas and inventions should be returned to those who have created and invested in them. Without this incentive we'd never have such world bridging pastimes in the first place.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Sounds to me like SOMEBODY in the advertising industry has adopted the mindset of record companies who haven't grasped what's happening in the 21st century ;-)

Given the length of time involved why exactly have Hasbro/Mattel been so slow to do something that people clearly want and is sooo easy to implement? My guess is they wanted someone to do the hard work, wait for it to be established and then use strong arm tactics to claim the spoils.

Were the guys cheeky in appropriating the game - sure but if Hasbro were at all seious about copyright they would have made a much bigger noise a looong time ago. I know various rumblings have surfaced over the last year or two but nothing that couldn't also be read as a marketing tool to keep the profile up

[TillieTrotter]

oh no I didnt realise this. I'm sure I had a go yesterday!

[Huguenot]

I'm on record on this site as agreeing with musical copyright. ;-)

There's been years of ingenuity, imagination, effort and investment in making Scrabble as popular as it is. You don't just steal it and make money off it 'coz you fancy it.

'Backlash' against Scrabble is idiotic, if someone has a backlash against me because I wouldn't give them my car then they can go swing! If no-one buys Scrabble then the ultimate loser is the public, who have no game, and no-one makes any new ones.

Intellectual property theft is like me making money by copying and pasting 'The Greater Thoughts of Sean MacGabhann' from this website to a multi-million dollar novel. SMG would be the first to see me in court I suspect ;-)

With intellectual property in the music industry, multiple issues get conflated in order to win consumer support for an essentially selfish motive. In no particular order:

* Bands get a raw deal on rev share contracts from record companies

* Bands want free marketing because they all think they're good even when they're bad

* Nobody likes bean-counters and grey suits and it fulfils a primal instinct to consider them 'parasites'

* Stealing non-tangible assets (sound or images) from musicians is considered a victimless crime

* Petty anarchists don't want to pay for any entertainment, they want it all for free

* Fair minded individuals feel they should be able to enjoy entertainment purchases on multiple private platforms

* People bring up silly examples like 'Happy Birthday' to support their case

* The advent of digital technology makes it easier to make multiple copies without reduction in quality and get away with it

In no particular order, if bands are offered bad contracts it's because they sign them. If they sign them it's because they want marketing and access to facilities, because they know it has a value. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't sign it, they'd just play in the local pub. Most music companies lose money on most bands.

If you have an issue in this area set up a free legal consultancy for new bands. I bet you won't because it costs money and effort to get the education and the resources necessary. You'll want to get a return.

Bean-counters and grey suits are nothing of the sort. In my experience these guys are very hardworking financiers, marketers and technicians. If their contribution has no value, then the bands should do it themselves and see where it gets them. B*llock nowhere is my guess.

Advertising and promotion costs money. On another thread here people are bemoaning the lack of quality on TV but don't like paying for it. Guess what - there's a connection here too.

Petty anarchists don't want something for free, in fact they want other people to pay for them. Running a band is an expensive pastime. We should be up in arms at the sheer arrogance of these thieves who are the reason why buying music is so costly, they are stealing from bands, from people who promote bands, from venues, from media outlets and from the people who pay over the odds for retail music.

Wanting to play music on multiple platforms for one individual or household is being addressed by the technical community.

The 'Happy Birthday' argument is just plain silly. Copyrights have limited duration and are established to allow artists and their families to enjoy the benefits of their hard work. Happy Birthday was originally 'Good Morning To You' and in the public domain. You cannot copyright something already in popular usage. I note that Google is already being subject to copyright oversight because to 'Google' something is rapidly become to mean 'search' and will be subject to less copyright control as a result.

Finally, because a crime is simple to commit and easy to get away with is not reasonable grounds for suppoprting it - so is punching strangers in the street. I cringe every time I hear my close friends roll out this argument. I assume this argument is what SMG is referring to with 'welcome to the 21st century'??

Music (like money) doesn't grow on trees, many people have to work very hard to generate it and get it to us. If bands don't want their revenue they can distribute it online copyright free. Many have tried this and few have repeated it. If it was a successful marketing solution record companies wouldn't exist.

If bands do want revenue then please don't mix and match your arguments 'music should be free because record companies have nasty contracts' is a particularly silly one.

[Mogs]

Horray!! it's back up - maybe it was just a bad dream

[SeanMacGabhann]

phew - and to think I edited my original post only to get a reply to some of the points I removed!

A slim volume to be sure and with seriously limited audience - but be my guest

I don't think I was suggesting anything like the argument you have demolished. Certainly not seriously. But in the record company's case and digital rights.. for all of the hard working financiers they have failed dismally to adapt to new technology. Yes it will get sorted but the old model of record companies being the paternal figurehead to "the talent" has changed. That must be obvious surely. I'm not advocating anyone steal anything or even that bands should give music away free but the companies (certainly the behemoths) as they currently exist are no longer necessary.

As for the Scrabble thing - again I'm not advocating criminal activity - I'm simply saying that the arrangement for years has been mutually beneficial and if it was such an affront to the copyright holders they would have done something sooner. They were complicit - not victims

[SeanMacGabhann]

Is it back on Facebook in this new guise?

Wordscraper

[Mogs]

And the original Scrabulous is back in the UK.

I think Wordscraper is for those in America

[Jah Lush]

I hadn't noticed it had been removed and I've still got four games on the go. Played last night and this afternoon.

As for the music argument. Fuck the majors. It's bollocks. I can remember record sleeves with "home taping is killing music." It didn't and it still thrived and will continue to do so.

I used to make loads of tapes for friends whether they be mix tapes or whole albums but if they liked something I'd recorded for them they'd usually go out and buy it in another format.

[char1ie]

The Copyright issue is a big one. I have found that the general public doesn't have much understanding of the law and as a result online debates around internet piracy focus on rubbish arguments based on half understood legal points.

On the other hand Scrabulous is great. I have won every game I have ever played after reading a Mockney Piers thread on the merits of cheating.

Charlie

[Huguenot]

Quite right Jah, that was the benefit of the loss in quality in multiple copies in the eighties and nineties. They'd be tempters for the 'real thing'. A great benefit for the band.

It doesn't apply in the noughties with the tech quality at our disposal, that's why it's a problem now...

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

When I was a nipper, I purchased a Recording Licence from the Post Office. This meant that one could legitimately record music from vinyl to tape, or whatever. This was stopped - don't know why. It seemed eminently sensible.

Regarding Hasbro and Scrabble copyright, in the history of Scrabble there have been various nefarious goings on with copy/manufacturing rights so I don't have that much sympathy.

[Huguenot]

I understand the sympathy argument, but two people arguing over a fish dinner doesn't give you the right to walk off with it ;-)

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Oh, I don't know - blessed are the peacemakers.

[SteveT]

for they shall inherit the mirth

[Jah Lush]

It's bloody gone again. Where it is? Anyone know?

[Lizziedjango]

I am really pleased it - Scrabulous - has gone. I was spending way too much time on it. Now my addiction is inadvertently broken. Rejoice!

[Pickle]

My addiction was cured for all of 5 minutes until I found Scrabble (the actual licensed version) on Facebook. In some ways even better than Scrabulous, worth a look (the actual application is called "Scrabble Worldwide").

[Lizziedjango]

Oh dear Pickle. I kind of wish you hadn't told me that....

(((((hastily switches to Facebook to find aforementioned applicattion.)))))))

[Asset]

I couldn't find the Scrabble Worldwide application but I've just started playing wordscraper which is similar.

[Lizziedjango]

No I couldn't find it either. There is only one for US and Canada Facebookers. :(

[Pickle]

Try this link:

http://apps.facebook.com/livescrabble/