Dulwich Wood House

[Keef]

Used to love the big garden before the first refurb some8010 years ago (I think). Used to enjoy going there for a pint with my dad, but haven't been in for a good 5 years at least!

[Jimbob]

i think if you take the likes of the dwh and the harvester for what they are, and don,t go in expecting a michelin starred gastroexperience, then they are not bad. i ate in the dwh in it last week and the food wasn,t bad although as already mentioned a tad on the dear side for what it was. it could well be trying to aim for the middle ground between the likes of the harvester and the gastropubs down the lane, but it would need to buck its ideas up a fair bit to achieve this. needless to say i,ve tried it although i havn,t been entirely put off i,ll stick to the harvester from now on, early bird menu, unlimited salad cart, pub crawl down the lane, where else would you get it.

[Louisa]

Sean what would you describe The Palmerston as now?

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

It isn't somewhere i go that often. I used to before. . When it was a lord. I would say that and franklins are the only places which could be called gastro pubs. The others are pubs and bars that do food. In the case of the mag, very good food.

[Jah Lush]

I'd say The Palmerston would be classed as a gastro-pub Louisa and I'm pretty sure Sean would agree as it has it's own chef and is not a slave to the Pubcos.

[Jah Lush]

Oops cross-posted.

[Louisa]

As much as I miss the old pub with it bunch of regulars, I must admit this place has since become a very decent foodie haunt in SE London and certainly ranks with some of the best even though I do think the place has become void of any atmosphere. I am no expert on Gastro and non-Gastro but certainly I would agree that if a place has it's own chef and isnt a chain run thing it is worthy of some sort of title. Although in my day it would have just been called a fully licenced independent restaurant, I dont quite get the distinction between Restaurant and Gastropub.

Louisa.

[Keef]

So why would the mag not be gastro then? Has it's own chef, changes the menu, not a pubco menu... I'm struggling with this definition.

Don't bother answering, I'm just bored, and don't really care either way.

[SeanMacGabhann]

apart from being slightly harsh about the atmos I would say you are in agreement with me. A restaurant (let's use Le Moulin as a mutual example) has no bar area. A gastropub, even with a bar area as stingy as Palmerston can still qualify as a pub

And remember one of the main reasons they are doing this is more to stay in business than it is to get rich. My brother manages pubs old-school pubs without food, and they are all dying on their arse. The natural punter for this type of place is a much-reduced breed. I don't blame the pubs for doing what they can..

[MsJ]

Not all pubs are going to be serving food of restaurant standards. That's what the Dulwich Woodhouse is, isn't it - a pub? It's a shame to let a bad meal put you off going to a perfectly decent pub ever again - especially one with such a great beer garden. What's wrong with eating at restaurants these days anyway...?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm answering because I nearly included the Magnolia and then didn't. Feel free to not read tho!

It might be - i wouldn't include it as such as the ambition to be "gastro" isn't really there. They aren't aiming to be fancy-dan, just-shy-of-a-michelin-star - and that's a strength of their's I say. I eat there more often than anywhere else

[Louisa]

Sean this whole bar area thing confuses me slightly. So it isnt all about the standard of the food then? If a pub serves food in an informal manner where you order at the bar and dont expect too much, it can still qualify as a pub. But if the place has its own chef and is independent it can qualify as a Gastropub (if the food is upto standard). I am guessing here (correct me if I am wrong), that a restaurant is more formal in some sense and has dressed tables and a waiter service, a pub is order at the bar service, and a gastropub is a restaurant standard fayre but with some sort of pub-like atmosphere/feel to it?

Louisa.

[SeanMacGabhann]

yikes - I only wanted to distinguish between pubcos selling dodgy food at inflated prices and genuine gastropubs. I'm not sure I'm qualified to say anymore than that, but I like the look of Louisa's last summary!

[Cassius]

Youngs seem to be on a mission to upgrade their establishments, get rid of the old 'pub' clientele and get a new clientele whom they think have more money to spend. IMHO they end up pleasing no-one. The old clientele feel alientated and unable to pop in for a pint (which is after all what a pub is for), you can't stand/sit at the bar, and the food is not good enough for a proper meal out and too expensive for a snack. I guess (and this is not derogatory just an opinion) that it is the family market that they are aiming for.

[woofmarkthedog]

Grrr woof...DWH ..a sad reflection of a general trend, silver gilt mirrors,wall paper,more wallpaper "staff on shifts" instead of people running the place....they have truly slaughtered the DWH and it wont survive long in this guise, what a missed opportunity to make a real community pub the food is sadly optimistic but lacking a proper chef, cooked by food technicians(muppets to me and you) How it could have been, look at the Greyhound and wot not in Dulwich village, hits the spot and feels honest not "made up" like DWH and though it's my nearest pub it wont see me again...Grrrrrrrrr

[Jeremy]

The guy who runs/ran the Canning used to post on here a lot, didn't he? I remember him saying that because they are tied into buying beer from the pubco at a ridiculous price, many pubs *have* to sell food simply to survive - in fact they sometimes sell drinks at a loss. Personally I often find myself choosing pubs which serve food, as if I'm meeting friends for a drink I usually don't have time to go home to make dinner first. And drinking on an empty stomach makes me feel ill!

[Crystal Tips]

What is this gastropub - non-gastropub pulava. DWH is obviously one. I am not sure where Sean and Jah are getting their definition but seems a bit too refined to me - below is Wikipedia's definition and it fits the bill

A gastropub (or gastro pub) is a British term for a public house which specializes in high-quality food a step above the more basic "pub grub." The name is a combination of pub and gastronomy and was coined in 1991 when David Eyre and Mike Belben opened a pub called The Eagle in Clerkenwell, London.[1][2]

Here's an exert on the same theme from the House of Commons - seriously

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmstand/b/st041214/am/41214s02.htm

[dc]

Take a bow Eric Illsley:

"The best definition of 'gastro-pub' that I can provide is a pub that provides food of such quality that people will attend merely for the quality of the cuisine, rather than because it is a place where they can drink alcohol."

[Jimbob]

nah you got it all wrong, blackboard menu, can,t be a gastro pub if theres no blackboard menu.

[ewan_m]

dc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Take a bow Eric Illsley:

>

> "The best definition of 'gastro-pub' that I can

> provide is a pub that provides food of such

> quality that people will attend merely for the

> quality of the cuisine, rather than because it is

> a place where they can drink alcohol."

I like this definition a lot, though it doesn't define what a 'pub' is ;) Still, I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what makes a pub 'gastro' and it's pretty much different for everyone. I've been relatively disappointed by a lot of the Young's refurbs over recent years; I think they're losing some of the character of many of their pubs by pushing the food side. Maybe it makes them gastropubs, maybe it just makes them up-market pubs that serve food, but in either case, I think there's something being sacrificed to calculated blandness.

[Mick Mac]

Sorry ewan_m but a chain (eg Youngs) is almost precluded from being a gastro pub. In my view a gastro pub almost always has an independent feel.

Big chains (youngs/weatherspoons) provide food that is so crap that it feels like a production line.

[ewan_m]

Although I didn't say DWH or any of the Young's pubs were gastropubs (and for the record, I don't *personally* think they are), I don't think that all gastropubs are independent exactly. The Anchor & Hope, for example, on The Cut SE1, is one of the earlier and more famous gastropubs and it's owned by Wells & Young's. Though of course, it doesn't have the 'chain' branding that I guess you may be referring to.

[Cassius]

I think the DWH seems more like a hotel bar and restaurant now than a pub either gastro or not gastro.

[Rhinestone Cowboy]

Popped in for Sunday lunch after a walk in the woods, very different and agree with comments about hotel bar/resturant. Food was nice and turnaround was quick. Think it will be a great place in the summer as the garden is large and lots of space. Would return.

[savvygirl]

What a great big pity! The DWH was one of the best pubs around, a proper pub where people met to drink and socialise. It was a country pub in London, and you don't get many of those. Where on earth were Youngs coming from to have wiped out this local gem, which was absolutely unique to them and replace it with this over-the-top, expensively decorated, undesirable establishment reminiscent of a hotel waiting room, which is "all fur coat and no drawers". Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned it's lost its charisma and is as dull as any other wateringhole in the vicinity - and there's plenty of those!