Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Atila Reincarnate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> In the premiership, there are only 3 clubs I can

> think of that have had any real continuity in the

> shape of the same manager over a period of years

> and they are Everton (Moyes), Man U (Fergie), and

> Arsenal (Wenger) all of these clubs have stability

> as a result and varying degrees of success. I

> think these 2 factors are inextricably linked.

> Chelsea believe that money buys success, for two

> successive seasons it worked for them. Man U and

> Arsenals success in the prem and elsewhere wasn't

> gained by throwing money around in the manner that

> Chelsea have, they both got the success and

> financial gain followed on. Which is why I always

> sneer at Chelsea. No matter what I think of Man U

> as an Arsenal supporter, I always admire the

> succes and the way they play.


Couldn't agree more Atila (this is getting weird). I would also add to that list O'Neill - three seasons at Villa and look at them now.

I'm not sure continuity breeds success, I think it's more like success breeds continuity.


The managers mentioned Wenger, Moyes and O'Neill have relatively speaking had instant success on arrival and continued it - and that is why unlike other managers, such as Glenn Roeder, Bruce Rioch, Hoddle, Pardew, Scolari, Adams who had the polar opposite effect, they have not been sacked.


We can talk about Ferguson being given time to win his first trophy which I think was three and half years (1990) but back in the late eighties failing managers were given more time than today.

Wikipedia is great :)


"Villa's form improved substantially following O'Neill's appointment. They had the longest unbeaten start of any Premiership side in 2006-07 (9 games), not losing a league game until 28 October."


"The 2007-08 season was a fantastic season for O'Neill and Aston Villa"


But besides that I guess it also depends on who was the previous governor.. which at Villa was the much maligned David O'Leary!

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sandperson Wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------

> I'm not sure I'd say O'Neill had

> > been that successful until now either.

>

>

> Oneill not successful at celtic !!!! Good god man,

> what were you thinking.


To clarify, I meant in the Premiership. Let's face it you could shave a monkey, put him in a tracksuit and give him either Rangers or Celtic to manage on any given season and he's more than likely to win the league. ;-)

That's no way to talk about Gordon Strachan!..



> To clarify, I meant in the Premiership. Let's face

> it you could shave a monkey, put him in a

> tracksuit and give him either Rangers or Celtic to

> manage on any given season and he's more than

> likely to win the league. ;-)

Sandperson Wrote:


>

> To clarify, I meant in the Premiership. Let's face

> it you could shave a monkey, put him in a

> tracksuit and give him either Rangers or Celtic to

> manage on any given season and he's more than

> likely to win the league. ;-)



I know - only jesting - But Rangers OR Celtic may win the league every year, but which one of the 2 wins is quite important.

Before O'Neill, Celtic had won the league ONCE in 13 years, Rangers having won the other 12 - so he made an immediate impact winning the treble for Celtic in his first season, winning the league by 20 points in his 1st season and winning his first old firm game 6-2.

Given that the previous but one manager John Barnes said that Celtic were 5 years behind Rabgers this was quite an achievement.

The UEFA Cup final was probably the highlight, losing to Jose's Porto in extra time.

..and John Barnes wonders why no one will offer him a a job as a Manager... bit like why Roy Evans has never been offered a Manager's job since he was eased out of the door at Anfield, back in 1998, by Gerard Houllier. Some ex-players are simply never going to make it as a Manager - did anyway ever seriously think Tony Adams would return to Arsenal to take over from Wenger?

Some may attack me for this, but Kenny Dalgish falls in to the same category as far as I'm concerned.


Inherited an amazing Liverpool team, then had all the best players at Blackburn. Never really proved himself to be a great manager at all, and basically failed when tested!

>> Some may attack me for this, but Kenny Dalgish falls in to the same category as far as I'm concerned.


Not sure about that Keef, seems a bit harsh.


He won the double in his first season (85/86) following Hysel which was no small feat. His biggest legacy as a Manager, on the field, was putting together the 87/88 attacking vintage of John Barnes, Peter Beardsley, John Aldridge, Ray Houghton. Remember this was the first season without Ian Rush - and many pundits had predicted Liverpool's downfall and was the catalyst for Evertonians street parties that summer. That Liverpool vintage just missed out on the double by a whisker 3 consecutive seasons 87/88 to 89/90 - and most probably would have picked up a few more European Cups. Probably the best team in the history of English football.


I had the pleasure of seeing that team a number of times during the 87/88 season - and I remember my first glimpse of John Barnes as Liverpool destroyed top of the table QPR 4-0 at Anfield with a masterclass in football led by the unstoppable John Barnes. What a team!


Of course I wouldn't bracket Dalglish alongside the very best which in my opinion (in England) are Bob Paisley, Herbert Chapman, Bill Shankly, Don Revie, Arsene Wenger and Matt Busby.... and grudgingly Alex Ferguson..

You forgot Bill Nicholson. The manager of the first double winning side back in the Sixties, three FA Cups including two in a row, two League Cups and the manager of the first British side to win a major European trophy, the European Cup Winners Cup in 1963 and the UEFA Cup in '72. He would have won the European Cup as well in '62 long before Celtic and Man Utd if it hadn't been for some very dodgy decisions by the referee in the semi-final against Juventus or was it Inter-Milan. Can't remember, but Bill Nicholson is definitely up there with the best of them and he won it all playing stylish attacking football.
Yeah that's right Don Revie was a cheating bastard and was a runner-up more times than he was a winner and he was possibly the worst England manager we've ever had who buggered off to the United Arab Emirates when offered a fat cheque and the going got tough.

A little footballing lesson from the European champions there, though the signs were far from all bad, some encouraging play and first half was well organised.


Why we weren't going with width to the towering front men once Spain had packed the midfield in the second half though, I don't know. Hanging around in front of ones own area isn't going to win us* any games.


And what a goal from our* David Villa!!


And not a bad effort from Cole at the end.


*I reserve the right to use the term we for both teams.

England were very poor. As industrious as they were in Berlin, tonight they were yet again exposed in midfield when playing a quality team ... no ideas, no composure, no technique and no control.


Why is it every England Manager packs the central midfield with players who are just looking to make a Hollywood pass or bone crunching tackle? England need someone in the centre of midfield who can keep it ticking over with little one twos, dictate play, and juggle the ball under pressure. For me the one player who has the potential to this job, when fit, is Joe Cole. If Cole was Italian, Spanish, Argentine, Brazilian or Dutch I'm pretty sure they'd make him the heart beat of the midfield rather than wasting him on the flank.


Until the engine room is sorted out (if ever), England will never be able to compete in a tournament. They might get the occasional one off win against big boys like Argentina (2002) or Holland (1996) but to sustain that in the knockout stages hard work and luck is not enough as eventually they will get kicked out by a team that matches England's strengths but also knows how to play football... which is usually how England get knocked out in a quarter final.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • The solicitor is also the Executor. Big mistake, but my Aunt was very old, and this was the Covid years and shortly after so impossible to intervene and get a couple of close relatives to do this.  She had no children so this is the nephews and nieces. He is a single practitioner, and most at his age would have long since retired - there is a question over his competence Two letters have already gone essentially complaining - batted off and 'amusingly' one put the blame on us. There are five on our side, all speaking to each other, and ideally would work as a single point of contact.  But he has said that this is not allowed - we've all given approval to act on each others behalf. There are five on her late husband's side, who have not engaged with us despite the suggestion to work as a team, There is one other, who get's the lion's share, the typicical 'friend', but we are long since challenging the will. I would like to put another complaint together that he has not used modern collective communication (I expect that he is incapable) which had seriously delayed the execution of the will.   I know many in their 80s very adept with smart phones so that is not an ageist comment. The house has deteriorated very badly, with cold, damp and a serious leak.  PM me if you want to see the dreadful condition that it is now in. I would also question why if the five of us are happy to work together why all of us need to confirm in writing.             The house was lived in until Feb 23, and has been allowed to get like this.
    • Isn’t a five yearly electricity safety certificate one of the things the landlord must give for a legal tenancy?
    • Very sorry to hear this, but surely the landlord is responsible for fixing the electrics?  Surely they must be insured for things like this? I hope you get it all sorted out quickly.
    • The Pie House Co-op Deptford Emergency Crisis - Needs YOUR Help. This not-for-profit, worker-run, wheelchair accessible music and arts venue at 213-214 Edward Place SE8 5HD THE CRISIS: From Liv, Grace & Sonia, On Friday 31st October, there was a flash flood in Deptford, and we found ourselves with water pouring in through the lighting fixtures, damaging our electrics and sound system. We have been forced to close for one of the busiest weekends of the year, losing thousands of pounds in income, and are now having to fight our landlords for support with the leak. We are asking all our allies for support as we try and reignite the crowdfunder to reflect the new expensive work that needs to take place, and the gear we need to replace. Thank you in advance for your support so far, and your support going forward. If you have any ideas with getting media attention, or fundraising - please get in touch on [email protected] Even if you like myself have not previously visited this venue, supporting small not for profit venues are vital to the life blood of what 'commmunity' is all about. HOW YOU CAN HELP: 1) If you are an electrician and can offer to help for free or at cost, please email: [email protected] Your help would of course be acknowledged. 2) If you are a Sound Engineer and can offer to help for free or at cost, please email: [email protected] Your help would of course be acknowledged. 3) If you are a journalist or have connections with the local and wider media (Print, on line, TV, Radio, please email: [email protected] 4) 'Every Little Helps' even just £1 will make a difference, please support the crowd funder: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/.../piehouse-workers-co-op... Via insta @piehouse.coop there is a video (see screenshots here) THANK YOU.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...