goose green fence

[Louisa]

kristymac1, you have kind of proven my point about middle class yummies with nothing better to do than whine on about a patch of grass and whether or not it should have a fence. I like your over dramatisation of the word suicidal, if boredom can drive anyone to suicide then they must be pretty hard up to find something decent to occupy their time, oh no maybe you fall into the yumm mummy catergory? Please confirm yay or nay. Whilst on the point, funnily enough your whinging drives me levels of snoozing, wake me up when your finished.

Louisa.

[kristymac1]

To be fair I'm not sure any parent has campaigned for the Green to be dog free - 'dog poo' free perhaps, but as a parent myself I'm more than happy to share the space with dogs (and their owners), and all other members of the ED community provided we all respect each others needs and wants, and I honestly don't think that considered segregation of the space poses any harm to anyone.

[cr*phands1]

I am very concerned about my fellow ED'ers in that SO MUCH time and money is being spent on this fence. What a waste of our money going through this whole rigmarole because a minority of dreamers think that all people will pick up their dog's poo. This isn't progress. The money being spent on this facade should be spent on something actually constructive like the kids playground in Goose Green instead of wasting our money on this folly. There has historically always been a fence in that place on Goose Green and so it should stand and I personally feel aggrieved that it is being removed to the detriment of our children's health.

[nancysmum]

This forum is very interesting. This thread started as a general notification that the fence was coming down. Somehow, it has developed into a slanging match with some feeling they can have a pop at anyone who expresses a desire to keep the fence in place. I thank Colonal Blimp for his voice of reason and do hope that those people who have digs at the "yummies" (a derogative term at best) will refrain from the temptation to wind people up. I don't think it's a healthy or nice thing to do.

I, as a parent, childminder and dog lover, did think the fence was fine where it was (bearing in mind it was already up). It served its purpose of giving an area where children could play freely on one side, and dogs on the other could run about and do their business. I don't think dogs should be banned from the green but i do think they should be given their own area...maybe that is what will happen in six months time. Lets make sure we all attend the meeting when they have it.

First mate - i do feel i need to come back to you about children having sole use of the swing park. It is true, we can go there but a) it is often heaving after school, b) the toddler section actually isn't toddler friendly so my two year olds (3 of them) all like to go to the really high climbing frame and c) children do still play football in there and three of my charges have been hit on the body by a flying football. Also both Puddleducks Nursery and St Johns & St Clements have used the green as a place to exercise / have sports days...where will they go now?

Mark, you talk of the enemy being the dog poo - really this thread wasn't even about 'enemies'. it was about the seemingly daft decision to take the fence down in the first place when both dog owners and parents want to use the green and the dividing fence provided that safely to both parties. Lets hope that in six months time there are enough coffers in the pot to put the fence back or Louisa's wish for the 'yummies' to have a private park of their own may just come true!

[first mate]

Some were complaining when the fence was up. To hear them you'd think the whole non dog section of the Green was knee deep in dog poo all the time, indicating that partition was not working. To be honest I don't have strong feelings either way, just so long as I am not banned from walking my dog through the Green should I choose.

I imagine the childrens sports days etc.. can carry on as before. It'd be a very odd person who'd let their dog off lead to defecate and run about willy nilly amongst a bunch of kiddies and their attendant parents/ adult carers at what is clearly an organised event. Human nature is generally more accommodating.

If older children are using the fenced playground to kick balls in a way that is harmful to toddlers then parents need to sort it out between them. My view is to get older children running five minutes up the road to the Rye where they have bags of space to kick away and the little extra exercise in getting there can only do them good. This is not to say that they cannot run around on the Green of course they can- as you say it's all about compromise and common sense.

As others have said we've all rubbed along quite happily in days gone by why such sound and fury now?

[nancysmum]

possibly because of the decision to take the fence down. Like kristy-mac, i'm not anti dogs, really i'm not. but i do think the fence was a good idea.

[cr*phands1]

I guess all we can do is to organise ourselves to get the fence put back up. Rather than moan about it, we should give representation at council meetings to lobby for it's re-instatement. After all, that's how the small fence hating got it to be removed in the first place. This is democracy at work. This does seem to contradict my previous post with regards to cost but in the long term I think it would be better for the park.

[Huggers]

'There has historically always been a fence in that place on Goose Green '-wrong,the dividing fence appeared a couple of years or so ago. It was in response to a need for a dog free area but unfortunately there was no consultation as to where in the park this should be, and it was aethetically hideous. Instead of the dog area being enclosed, the dog free area was enclosed.

Goose Green has been historically a 'common'. The trouble with the dog free zone was that it was not enforcable as it had been put up without a dog control order. So The area was being used by some irresponsible scary-dog owners anyway. It was aethetically horrible and forced people sitting on benches to eat their lunches next to dog poo bins.

To my mind the solution is thus: dogs on leads across goose green but a free exercise zone at the large triangular grass area nearer the roundabout fenced in by a fence matching the outside fence, with proper enforcement and notices.

This is my idea for a solution- as a parent AND a dog owner.

[Huggers]

p.s. so let's now all relax, make proper observations over the next six months, then campaign properly, sensibly and without hostility for something that makes Goose Green look whole, beautiful and accessable to all, with a special but not spacially dominating place for our furry friends and plenty of space to kick a football.

[first mate]

Huggers,

I agree with you. A fence behind the path nearest the roundabout would make a good dog area and dogs on short leads anywhere else is fine. Also agree the fence was hideous. The new fence should be the same design as perimeter fence. The Green looks so much better without the old fence.

I still maintain though that the really irresponsible people will most likely carry on. But, fingers crossed and let this be an end to it.

[Mscrawthew]

I totally disagree with the decision to remove the fence, it`s a no win situation for both children and dogs. Could we also suggest that the same gates as used in the dog free area, are installed when and if we ever have another fence re-instated.

One of the problem`s with the old area for dog owners was the fact that the gates were always left open which meant that the "dog free" area was used as it was more secure. Being next to a main road is not ideal for children or dogs, simple measures would make the world a happier place :)

[p_in_ed]

Walking across the Green at lunchtime today, I saw no evidence of a paradigm shift in the behaviour of the irresponsible dog walking minority now that the fence has gone.

Without straying from the path or slowing to look carefully, I saw three clear examples of dog fouling.

I guess there was a faint hope that now the dog walkers have been given the freedom to roam across the whole Green, we would see a marked improvement in behaviour among the minority that don?t clean up after their dogs. Doesn?t look like it?s going to happen.

The number to call to get dog fouling cleaned up is:

020 7525 5777

which is the LBS Noise and Antisocial Behaviour Hotline. They were very helpful

[first mate]

p-in-ed,

I feel your pain at the poo but why do you keep assuming that removing or putting up fences is going to make any difference to the tiny amount of people that don't pick up? Rather like those who continue to wilfully speed or drink and drive, despite fines and points on licence, these people are the same. They don't care.

I should just add that it only takes one or two of the same people plus dog/s, over a few days, to create the impression that every dog owner is doing it.

Also what about the broken glass, haven't you noticed that too?

[p_in_ed]

I guess, first mate, it was the triumph of hope over expectation. But I think I agree with you, I?m starting to think it?s a bit unrealistic.

Having had a number of conversations over the last year with dog walkers that were perversely walking their dogs in the fenced off ?dog free? area, they?d made it clear to me that they considered the fence to be an infringement of their rights and that expecting them to walk their dogs in a designated part of the park was an unenforceable limitation.

I kind of thought that, now they?d achieved what they wanted to achieve, there might be an improvement in picking up. But maybe these weren?t the people that were causing the problem in the first place. Who knows. The behaviour is never observed. It?s never penalised. And as a result there?s little incentive for people to change how they behave.

Maybe the fence is neither here nor there when it comes to the behaviour of the minority that fail to clean up after their dogs. But it would be nice to think that something could be done to clean up the Green.

[first mate]

p-in-ed,

Thanks for the reasonable tone of your reply.

I think the poo and the walkers are two separate things and here's why why.

The non scoop poopers are a tiny group who are not going to change, not without a really serious punishment and that would be difficult to enforce. First you have to catch 'em and these anti social types tend to walk their dogs at anti social hours or off lead everywhere. But, we'd all like to see the back of them.

The walkers, a bit like me, are worried about dog control orders because for the minority that actively loathe all dogs and would like to see them banned everywhere, applying control orders sets a precedent that could go on to be applied on Peckham Rye etc..

I would like to see a voluntary code of conduct whereby dog owners keep their dogs on a short lead on the Green. Any dog needing a good gallop should be taken to the Rye. If the owner cannot do this then my feeling is they shouldn't have a dog that requires goodly amounts of exercise every day. This allows the elderly and others with lower exercise needs to potter around on the Green. In the same way I wouldn't expect to see full scale football matches and similar on the Green, it's just not of a scale for those kinds of activity- the Rye is.

Of course, the really practical solution to the poo issue is that we all pick up what's there (any dog walker should always go armed with plenty of bags anyway) I heave at this idea as much as anyone but if the bag is a good one no harm can come to us. I expect to be hung, drawn and quartered for this suggestion. But it would go some way to solving the problem.

[macroban]

> This allows the elderly

Thank you for your permission.

[first mate]

macroban,

Sorry, badly expressed on my part and it did sound patronising. What I was trying to say was that banning dogs from the Green entirely would particularly affect those dog owners who were not up to daily visits to the Rye- amongst these these some elderly dog owners. A voluntary short lead policy would enable those dog owners who need to use the Green, because it is harder for them to go elsewhere, to carry on.

[Huggers]

Two police vans on Goose Green right now. Could they have caught a non-pooper scooper in the act?

[Freddy1929]

What has Southwrk done with the fence? you don't think they are going to be melted down to make Spitfires?.....

[AllforNun]

still a massive waste of time and money, what a balls up, who was in on it and why....let's hope they have all been named and shamed, and their houses take off them as well as there opinions on all things visual and public.... the whole thing was a CRIME and the fact they dragged their heels so much to cover up their absolute stupidity and inability to look at a design and say "christ that's a fucking joke" should really mean they should be flogged with the left over stale french loaves from EDD and left semi naked on the goose green roundabout to be heckled even further by late night revellers in the lane.

[p_in_ed]

Just back from my tambourine session at Rye Oak, where I?d slipped a fascinating flyer on the football academy at West Ham United into my man pouch (thinking I could sign my son and heir up for the Claret and Blues in years to come). I strolled through my lilac painted front door and checked out the EDF to discover that AllFor Nun was in right royal form today and was thoroughly venting his spleen. May have to quietly bin the flyer. Think I'll hold onto to my fond recollections of the fence though.

[Moos]

Ha!

Spotted you, you fraud. The correct colour for an ED front door is a pale shade of olive.

(It's like that bit in the Bond movie when he rumbles the Russian spy because he ordered red wine with fish, quelle horreur)

[inkyjunior1]

umm well why dont doggy owners scoop the poop and well they would if more doggy wasdte bins no where near enough of them.

awful i glengarry road.

train dog to do it in drain at least for goodness sake dont you know what germs are carried in dog stuff.

i liked the green fence it should have stayed,was good idea even if just reduces issue slightly.

i

[Sue]

inkyjunior1 Wrote:

> i liked the green fence it should have stayed,was

> good idea even if just reduces issue slightly.

>

xxxxxxx

It was hideous

[nancysmum]

it was up, it served a purpose, and it would have saved the council a hell of a lot of money if they had just left it.