Aircraft noise -

[pop9770]

Are you really living in East Dulwich?

Had your hearing checked recently?

You don't work for the Heathrow media machine?

[Elphinstone's Army]

edcam lives in Camberwell. consider your blood pressure please and be not goaded

[pop9770]

Ah that explains it then he's lower and further away from the flight path.

Probably deaf from the camberwell traffic too.

[Cardelia]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> Oh and aircraft noise is only a problem in London

> no other major European city has aircraft flying

> over millions of people every few minutes from 4am

> until past midnight.

How many major European airports are restricted to two runways? Schipol has six, Charles de Gaulle, Madrid and Frankfurt have four each. Istanbul's new airport is planned to have 6 runways when it's finished. Why do you think that airports with an abundance of spare capacity have far fewer night flights than airports which are pretty much operating at capacity?

[pop9770]

Cordelia

The proposal doesn't change much in flight timing we'll just be getting more early morning and late night flights NOT fewer!

[stephent]

Frankfurt has 0 night flights because the German government banned them.

[Cardelia]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> The proposal doesn't change much in flight timing

> we'll just be getting more early morning and late

> night flights NOT fewer!

Heathrow have agreed to a total ban on flights between 11 pm and 5:30 am if the third runway goes ahead, which is (a) better than the current situation and (b) better than at comparable airports like Frankfurt, Schipol and Charles de Gaulle. Also, where is it stated that Heathrow will operate more early/late flights?

Stephent: that is not strictly true. There is a total ban between 11 pm and 5 am, but Frankfurt can operate 133 flights per day between 10-11 pm and 5-6 am. I don't know how many of that allocation it actually uses, but I'm pretty sure that Heathrow doesn't operate anywhere near that many flights within those hours.

[BrandNewGuy]

The third runway's been given the go-ahead.

[pop9770]

Mad decision!

The only times that would be acceptable ban flights between 11pm and 8am.

If builders can't start making noise until 8am why should aircraft be any different?

[pop9770]

I've been looking at flightradar24.com

And today East Dulwich is not being bombarded with aircraft noise we get occasional flights over.

It's because the flights look to be mostly joining the landing path over nine elms.

They fan in from multiple directions.

I've looked before and there have been days when we get every one of the planes over us.

It's only a couple of miles north of us but wow what a difference..

[i*Rate]

fazer71,

Thanks for your comments above; I have posted a few times on this thread. I know that the noise has got worse in the last ten years or so and it was a very quiet area when I moved to ED in 1980.

I have written to Boris, Helen Hayes and now our new Mayor just to get some sense of being able to to do something about my home and garden being degraded by this pollution. Why should I move when I am settle here and 20 miles from Heathrow anyway?!.

There has been a couple of interesting items on the radio about the subject lately.

One was about the Climate Change conference where it was admitted that airliners are not included in the global warming calculations, but the scientist, etc, are now thinking about how they may be involved. Couldn't make it up - as they say - considering airliners burn around 10,000 litres of fuel an hour at high altitude. Mmm, I wonder if they do have an effect?

The other one was a call-in on You And Yours, the BBC Radio 4 programme at lunchtime today about the building of a third runway at Heathrow. The last caller was and ordinary lorry driver who asked a very interesting question: where will all of the extra lorries park when tons more freight arrives at Heathrow by air? He said that at the moment it was almost impossible to get to the loading bays as so much comes in by air. Something to deal with - maybe double the width of the motorways to the airport as well?

By the way, I tried earplugs too. Maybe an mp3 player with headphones and a continuous supply of heavy metal music would work?

Anyway - fasten your seat belts, we're in for a bumpy ride!

[pop9770]

I*rate

I just read back on fazer71

Can't believe the abuse

[pop9770]

We're back on the flight path this morning

5.11 am wake up

[TheArtfulDogger]

Pop

Two recommendations for you to cope

Either move away to a quieter area or triple glazing

Aircraft noise isn't going anywhere soon and you do appear to be in the minority of ed residents that it causes so much anguish to

[bobbsy]

I don't think pop is in the minority - I just think he's one of the few people affected who post on the forum.

I find the noise levels incredibly loud - so much so, that if the window is open and I have the TV on, I need to pause it until the aircraft noise recedes. When city airport was closed the other day it felt so quiet, with none of the smaller turboprop aircraft flying overhead. It's about time that aircraft were included in noise and other pollution considerations. jet fuel can contain up to 3000ppm sulphur, whilst currently 10ppm is the road standard. Incredible.

The noise over parts of Dulwich is too loud.

[Administrator]

pop9770 Wrote:

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> ...

> I just read back on fazer71

> Can't believe the abuse

Yes you can, you are fazer71.

[Penguin68]

Nice one admin

[TheArtfulDogger]

I challenged him on that very fact a short while ago in this thread and received a denial

[rendelharris]

I was just going to say, Dogger wins the prize for textual analysis!

[bobbsy]

All,

Aircraft noise is a very real problem for many people. Not all of them post here. If it is not a problem for you, that's amazing and I'm happy that it doesn't affect you, but please don't shoot down the people that it does affect.

On the days that the planes pass overhead, the noise can be incessant. I personally believe it's City airport and the smaller turboprop planes that are the most annoying, higher pitched and whiney.

It is real. It had become worse over the time I've lived here. It's bloody annoying.

[pop9770]

Bobbsy

Thank you for your support.

[edcam]

Ah, it makes sense now. Of course he is fazer71. Similar insults to those who don't agree with him.

[klove]

I have a bit of sympathy for Frazier71 (aka pop9770... hilarious), we live right underneath the flight path but in our neighbour's house across the road, it doesn't seem half as bad; you can hardly notice it in their garden. Perhaps it makes a psychological difference if you can see the planes?

All I'm saying, is location, even to the meter, seems to make a big difference to the noise.

[bobbsy]

It's also one of those things, a bit like a car/house alarm - if you are asleep, and it doesn't wake you up, you don't notice it is there. But if you are awake trying to get to sleep, it is the worst/most annoying thing in the world for that period of time.

[Penguin68]

we live right underneath the flight path but in our neighbour's house across the road, it doesn't seem half as bad; you can hardly notice it in their garden.

As you said, it may be a psychological thing - when you are at your neighbours' you have other distractions so the aircraft noise may become less important to you - at home you can concentrate on it. I normally only 'hear' the planes (consciously) when I am reading these threads - on other occasions I am oblivious - although I find police helicopters overhead really annoying! Finding ways of diverting your thoughts away from planes ('don't think of pink elephants') may be a solution, but one difficult to achieve. Maybe Mindfulness could help? For us in ED things are actually very different from those recognised to be in the sound shadow much closer to the airport - many here can ignore the planes - which is like trying to ignore a police helicopter just overhead if you are much closer to Heathrow itself.