V1 & V2 Bombs dropped on Lordship Lane.

[rendelharris]

Individual railings or the total number? If the latter, it's an awful lot, see them everywhere! I believe (though am of course willing to stand corrected!) that the stretchers were massively overordered in expectation of poison gas attacks - which is why they're metal so they wouldn't absorb the poison and could be reused.

[edhistory]

Just one railing unit for measuring.

[rendelharris]

I should be walking past some tomorrow, I'll have a look!

[edhistory]

Thanks, this could be interesting.

[bingobongo]

..... at the new built Epiphany

> Hall in Bassano street; built where the bomb

> shelters used to be I believe.

New built....cant be...It's in street party photos when I was 3..45. I think you are 14 years younger than me..So it had been around quite a while..I looked at it recently, on the street view map..It had stone steps up to the top floor on the outside wall, lordship lane end .when I was at St Johns..But they are covered up and inside the extension now. So part was new..

We used to go to the bomb shelter, it isn't under the hall..it has the car park on top now, next to the Epiph'.

I do recall Blackmore?s on the

> opposite corner, his old NSU scooter parked

> outside, crisps, Dandelion & Burdock, Zing, Tizer,

> flying saucers, Sweet Cigarettes, Jamboree Bags &

> suchlike sensations.

Mr Blackmore was ex RAF? He knew all kinds of clever stuff, so educated everyone .. He took over the corner shop from Mrs Murton (Merton) His sister. I remember that list of things, with coconut mushrooms, coconut chips, tiger nuts, curly whirlies, raspberry ripple ice cream, Mivvies..After Sunday school meeting place.

>

> To BingoBongo:- I went to school with a lad who

> lived in Kent House on Bassano, by the name of

> Stephen Wayne. Did you know the Wayne family? I

> went to cubs in the Epiphany Hall, 10th Camberwell

> ?C? pack. By the way, great photo of yourself and

> your Sister.

We lived in the top flat of Kent House, with the yard which must have been the flat roof of the lower building,

We moved out when I was four, our window, with its x sticky tape and roll up blackout blind.. looked over the Epiphany Hall.. I don't remember anyone else who lived there, but there was a small boy called Colin who waS in one photo..I think he lived there...

Thanks for reminders!

Have a happy Christmas

[bingobongo]

http://dulwichonview.org.uk/2014/08/27/recycled-war-stretchers/

Photos here and story of ARP metal stretchers.. with before and after metal fences..photos of the blocks of flats on dog kennel hill.. and a close up of one stretcher segment of the stretcher fence...

[edhistory]

There are other places that have this story too.

I'd still like the measurements, if someone can volunteer to do it.

[skylorikeet]

These stretchers can be found serving as railings in several places in London. I have attached a pic of them in use during WW2 and also a screenshot from the film 'In Which we Serve' in which I hope you can see they are lifting a casualty on one stretcher while an empty one is being moved in the background.

[rendelharris]

edhistory Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are other places that have this story too.

>

> I'd still like the measurements, if someone can

> volunteer to do it.

Just for you I took a tape measure along when I went to Sainsbury's, the stretcher railings on Pytchley Road measure:

Bed (i.e. the wire platform) 180cm x 58cm

Handles 18cm each end

Overall length 216 cm

Depth (i.e. the height it would be off the ground when laid down) 10 cm

On another issue, the factory chimney, the line you plotted for the location was very similar to mine, but I think we may have been misled: if you look at the picture again, the church spire on the extreme left of the picture can only be St.John the Evangelist, can't it? So triangulating from that and the location of the photographer (opposite the Shawbury Rd/LL junction), the chimney must be on a line roughly forty degrees off the line from photographer to church. Hope that makes sense, tried to show what I mean on the attached.

ETA did Nunhead reservoir ever have a chimney for a pumping station, maybe?

[Y'man]

>

> On another issue, the factory chimney, the line

> you plotted for the location was very similar to

> mine, but I think we may have been misled: if you

> look at the picture again, the church spire on the

> extreme left of the picture can only be St.John

> the Evangelist, can't it? So triangulating from

> that and the location of the photographer

> (opposite the Shawbury Rd/LL junction), the

> chimney must be on a line roughly forty degrees

> off the line from photographer to church. Hope

> that makes sense, tried to show what I mean on the

> attached.

>

> ETA did Nunhead reservoir ever have a chimney for

> a pumping station, maybe?

But does go through the mini Indusrial Estate first mentioned by Willard. Not sure about the reservoir but Nunhead Cemetery didn't have a crematorium as far as I know, if it did it would be right in line but I still think this chimney is bomb site side of The Rye.

[Y'man]

How about the large roofed houses in the foreground left of the chimney? Top of Worlingham Road maybe? The chimney can also be seen in the pre bomb photo, belching smoke.

[Y'man]

http://www.mappalondon.com/london/south-east/peckham-rye.jpg

Here is a map of Dulwich showing a large building off Tyrrel Rd. Can't find out what it was, as yet, but if it was a factory it may have had a chimney.

[Y'man]

bingobongo Wrote:

> New built....cant be...It's in street party photos

> when I was 3..45. I think you are 14 years younger

> than me..So it had been around quite a while..I

> looked at it recently, on the street view map..It

> had stone steps up to the top floor on the outside

> wall, lordship lane end .when I was at St

> Johns..But they are covered up and inside the

> extension now.

Yes indeed, strange what tricks the memory, or lack of one, plays. It was, indeed, the stairs that were new-ish. I never knew them uncovered so it was the enclosement of them that I remember as new build. Entrance into the downstairs hall was also from the new part. There was a time, I believe it was when they were building the extension on St John's, that our classes were held upstairs in the Epiphany hall.

Where, exactly, do you suppose those pre & post bomb photos were taken from? Factory roof?

> Mr Blackmore was ex RAF? He knew all kinds of

> clever stuff, so educated everyone .. He took over

> the corner shop from Mrs Murton (Merton) His

> sister. I remember that list of things, with

> coconut mushrooms, coconut chips, tiger nuts,

> curly whirlies, raspberry ripple ice cream,

> Mivvies..After Sunday school meeting place.

Mmmmmm, Mivvies, and licorice wood, bally lollies, custard & cream sweets, barleysugar twist and Bazooka Joe with the cartoon inside.

[rendelharris]

Y'man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Where, exactly, do you suppose those pre & post

> bomb photos were taken from? Factory roof?

As far as I can guess from the angles, I reckon they were taken from the top floor of the Georgian building which abuts Sage Mews.

[Y'man]

Requiescat in Pace 'Ricky Parfitt'. A great friend and long time resident of East Dulwich.

[edhistory]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just for you I took a tape measure along when I

> went to Sainsbury's, the stretcher railings on

> Pytchley Road measure:

>

> Bed (i.e. the wire platform) 180cm x 58cm

> Handles 18cm each end

> Overall length 216 cm

> Depth (i.e. the height it would be off the ground

> when laid down) 10 cm

Thank you for that, it's the first hard data on this thread, rather that speculation.

Clearly the wire meshes are human scale.

Over the break I was referred to this:

http://www.dulwichsociety.com/news/1431-brian-green-on-tv

I have not seen it myself.

I'm told that Brian Green refers to shorter railing lengths that were ARP stretchers for children.

This could be a wind-up.

[amac]

Hi Penguin 68; yes, I've read also that the Germans were misled over their targeting, but in actual fact the V1s were not particularly accurate anyway as it was a very complicated calculation to gauge the effect of wind strength, fuel needed etc. Loads landed in Kent, I believe the very first one fell into a field near Swanscombe (somewhere around Dartford).

There were many terrible hits all over SE London. One of the worst was at Churchfields Rd, Penge, which killed 44 people on 2 Aug 1944 and devastated the surrounding area. Read about all the impacts in Beckenham alone at http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_summary_beckenham.html

[Penguin68]

VI flying (buzz) bombs could be intercepted (the RAF got quite good at tipping them up and over-balancing them as well as shooting them down) - it was the V2 (super-sonic ballistic missiles) that could not be intercepted and which could be better targeted (they were too fast and heavy to be influenced by the weather). They also carried a much larger payload and diverting them through misinformation was the only defence available.

[edhistory]

And now for something totally different...

Mortuary stretchers

http://www.dulwichsociety.com/journal-archive/97-2013-autumn/915-dulwich-world-war-ii-commemorative-plaques

The ?Stretcher Railings?

In July 1940 Camberwell Borough Council announced that it was collecting all metal railings from churches and houses and other buildings to be turned into weapons. In the following March, during the Blitz, the South London Observer noted that 34 garages at the uncompleted Ruskin Park House luxury flats on Champion Hill, were being used as a mortuary for fatal air raid victims. It is very likely that the metal fencing placed on Dog Kennel Hill and in Quorn Road after the war, to replace the original removed metal railings, was in fact the recycled metal mortuary stretchers. The photograph also shows the metal stretchers being used for training by civil defence teams before the Blitz started. The stretcher fencing, which is still in place in some roads, is to be removed this year when further refurbishing of the estate takes place but one of the stretchers is to be retained and the plaque commemorating the victims of the Quorn Roa

[skylorikeet]

Penguin and amac, a local boy, R V Jones, was involved in providing the Germans with the misinformation that caused bombs to fall short as he had been analysing information from a young spy (Jeannie Rousseau) who was working at Peenem?nde where the rockets were being developed. His memoir is a fascinating read. Jones saw that the:

?centre of gravity being in south-east London, near Dulwich. In a flash I saw that we might be able to keep the bombs falling short, which would mean fewer casualties in London as a whole, and at the same time avoid arousing any suspicions regarding the genuineness of the agents. I realized well that what I was doing was trying to keep the mean point of impact in the Dulwich area, where my own parents lived and where, of course, my old school was. But I knew that neither my parents nor the school would have had it otherwise.?

This course of action was rejected by Herbert Morrison, standing in for Churchill, who thought the Government was trying to keep the bombs off Belgravia ?at the expense of the proletariat in South London? but Jones put it into operation anyway, saying he had not been present at the meeting and requesting the instruction in writing. Unbeknownst to him, the meeting had decided that the matter was so secret the instruction should not be put into writing. Thus Jones had time to be proved right before the official instruction reached him.

Edited to add: sorry, I have just seen your earlier posts which say what I have just posted! The R V Jones book is still a good read if you haven't read it.

[Townleygreen]

yeah RVJ was at Alleyn's when it was a grammar school

[johnie]

Noticed these type of stretchers being used in the WWII film of Peckham on the BFI

http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-bombed-out-1945/

See about 49 seconds in

[edhistory]

Good find.

See attachment.

johnie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Noticed these type of stretchers being used in the

> WWII film of Peckham on the BFI

>

> http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-bombed-out-194

> 5/

>

> See about 49 seconds in

[edhistory]

This is the best frame grab I can get from "In Which We Serve".

I'm not convinced the ambulance train photo is WWII.

skylorikeet Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> These stretchers can be found serving as railings

> in several places in London. I have attached a pic

> of them in use during WW2 and also a screenshot

> from the film 'In Which we Serve' in which I hope

> you can see they are lifting a casualty on one

> stretcher while an empty one is being moved in the

> background.

[another annie]

Belated thanks Y'man for your memories about the shops on the crossroads of Landcroft and Goodrich Roads, nice to think of you coming along to get lunch here from your mum every day! And I like the detailed way you've remembered Mrs Bartlett's daughter's Austin Mini - it obviously made an impression on you! Guess there was a 'shopfront' then - unfortunately the front of the house has been rather blandly rebuilt, the only hint of the shopfront being the 'cut-off' corner, where I guess the entrance was.

Still looking for a photo of the house as a shop, and on Open House day last year we saw a postcard of the Baptist Chapel from Lordship Lane, the photo looks down Goodrich and you can just make out the grocers shop. So planning on another visit to Southwark local history to try to find that photo, realising that our previous fruitless search of 'grocers shop Landcroft Road' etc was maybe too specific - the postcard we saw was titled 'Baptist Chapel Lordship Lane SE' - maybe a tip for anyone else looking for photos of specific buildings?

Love this sort of thread, one of the best things about the EDF, keep it up, all!