Child abuse - Ireland's Catholic shame

[Mick Mac]

giggirl Wrote:

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> I prefer Famous Blue Raincoat but we're on the

> wrong thread for this!

Jennifer Warnes.....(but I see the link)

[Huguenot]

"Doesn't the fact that a fellow forumite feels like this tell us something about our own behaviour? No forumite should be made to feel that his/her opinions are worthless - and Monica's are as valid as anybody else's. This forum is about inclusivity, not the reverse."

I don't think it's reasonable to take this as a blanket rule.

Anyone who had a younger sister will be familiar with tactical squeals of 'victim, victim' whilst evil lurks beneath.

There are plenty of adults who haven't grown out of such manipulation, and more than a few on here ;-)

[Ladymuck]

Ladymuck Wrote:

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> Ummmm, yes I can see that to someone who regularly

> flirts openly on the Forum, that Monica's comment

> might appear "a bit Victorian". To me however, it

> is nothing more than an innocent comment.

The above post appears to have caused some confusion amongst some of you...perhaps I should clarify.

The above (as highlighted) was not intended to suggest that it is Monica who "regularly

flirts openly on the Forum"...those words relate specifically to DM. My apologies for the confusion.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Huguenot Wrote:

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> "Doesn't the fact that a fellow forumite feels

> like this tell us something about our own

> behaviour? No forumite should be made to feel that

> his/her opinions are worthless - and Monica's are

> as valid as anybody else's. This forum is about

> inclusivity, not the reverse."

>

> I don't think it's reasonable to take this as a

> blanket rule.

>

> Anyone who had a younger sister will be familiar

> with tactical squeals of 'victim, victim' whilst

> evil lurks beneath.

>

> There are plenty of adults who haven't grown out

> of such manipulation, and more than a few on here

> ;-)

I agree. It is slightly irritating that someone uses their faith and arguments about cliques to close down debate about the appalling abuse suffered by thousands of children. I think the charge of insensitivity could be made against Monica for assuming her faith carries more weight than the voice of survivors of this sytemic abuse. How does she know whether DM herself, or people close to DM have not been abused by those in the Catholic church?

Just because DM doesn't cry all over the forum, doesn't mean this topic doesn't cause her immense pain. It is more than insensitive to try to close down the voices of the abused by feigning pain at the discussion.

Weigh it up. Pain of actual abuse v criticism of the institution who perpetrated it.

Hmm, I know which hurt has more weight in my opinion.

[monica]

legal you are talking Utter B%%%%%%%%%%, I dont assume and I am now begging you read my previous posts please. How on earth are you confusing my comments re DM and her viscious comments, and me assuming my faith carries weight. DM does not know me and I her, thank god. So leave it please and dont assume just act on evidence, what is actually in the posts!!!!!

[monica]

MicMack thanks for that little pick me up, Gary is so cute, and coupled with that sexy accent, im off to bed.;-)

(goes off dragging hubby to bed kicking and screaming noooooo)

[Mick Mac]

Sorry but, in real life Monica, he is a right tosser......

[Mick Mac]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

> I agree. It is slightly irritating that someone

> uses their faith and arguments about cliques to

> close down debate about the appalling abuse

> suffered by thousands of children.

> How does she (monica) know whether DM herself, or people

> close to DM have not been abused by those in the

> Catholic church?

> Weigh it up. Pain of actual abuse v criticism of

> the institution who perpetrated it.

>

Sorry Legal - but Monica is not dismissing any actual abuse, neither is she saying that any abuse is not completly abhorrent - DM has not stated that any actual abuse took place in her life, upon her or her family. You are suggesting that it did? I'm sure if there was any such abuse, we would all abhor it, including Monica.

In my honest opinion - I feel DM is making a point and expressing that, in her "superior" judgement, religion has no basis in fact. In making this point, she has been patronising in the extreme towards Monica.

I for one am no longer laughing. Like any comedian, you need to reinvent yourself and the "DM" character is becoming boring now. Ice and lemon anyone....

[dulwichmum]

Mic Mac,

How dare you refer to Monica's husband as "a right tosser." You have gone too far this time, I am reporting you to admin.

[Mick Mac]

If GMac was half as successful as his website suggests he is, he'd be living in Alleyn Park (beside you), not East Dulwich.

Anyway, I'm just jealous.

[dulwichmum]

Get your facts right Mick Mack. I live on Alleyn Road, Alleyn Park is far too close to Kingsdale for my tastes and the houses are half the price as a result (stomps foot).

[Mick Mac]

Anyway - neither have the "culture" of ED. I think I'll retire to SE21....

[dulwichmum]

You would never be accepted over here Mick Mack, you are NOCD!

Some last thoughts before I head off to Westfield:

I have no enormous problem with any priest or monk who (for example) pops his leg in a wood chipper or hacks off a finger, and claims that he has acquired a saintly and miraculous injury in order to increase the popularity of the church.

I once met a lovely woman who falsely claimed that there was research based evidence that proved teenagers who were breastfed did not develop acne ? when I challenged her on it, she said that it did not matter that it was a lie, if it meant more women breastfed, then it was a good lie! At the time, she gave me a big headache, but I didn?t think it was worth a row.

I have no problem with a monk who has a legion of lovers, a school full of children and hits the pillow every night with the bishop and a couple of assorted deacons and clergy members. Good luck to him!

I have a problem with people who because of their elevated social position, consider themselves above the law as it applies to everyone else (including MPs), people who use their power to abuse vulnerable people (including paedophiles), and people who blindly elevate these charismatic characters despite the evidence in front of their faces (the German army facilitated Hitler).

And no, I will never back down on this, because it is fear of upsetting the status quo that permits terrible horrors to perpetuate.

[Jah Lush]

Top post DM and I'd concur with all of that.

[Mick Mac]

You would never be accepted over here Mick Mack, you are NOCD!

'NOCD'. Not our class dear?

I think you have shown a certain lack of class on this thread DM.

And, with this commet, you continue to fall in my estimation.

[Jah Lush]

She's a fallen woman Mick.

[RosieH]

Mick, I'm with Jah on this - DM, I thought that was a great post: lucid, humane and spot on.

I've caught up on this thread with a growing sense of bemusement at what seems to be an increasingly hysterical mien. I'm not naive, I know that this is what discussions of religion bring about. But I think the post above showed nothing but class.

[mockney piers]

"I once met a lovely woman who falsely claimed that there was research based evidence that proved teenagers who were breastfed did not develop acne ? when I challenged her on it, she said that it did not matter that it was a lie, if it meant more women breastfed, then it was a good lie!"

wow. That's succinctly described Tony Blair's government.

"people who blindly elevate these charismatic characters despite the evidence in front of their faces (the German army facilitated Hitler)"

mind you this, apart from not making any sense (though I understand what you are getting at), has surely and not before time godwinned this thread. I declare it an ex thread ;)

[SeanMacGabhann]

don't you have stables to muck out or something this morning Mr Mockney? ;-)

[Michael Palaeologus]

A roller-coaster of a thread. Not being of the Irish persuasion I have abstained from commenting. However,

Nice post Dulwich-mum.

[mockney piers]

Ah jaysus sean, I'm getting there, now, where are me wellies?

[Mick Mac]

RosieH Wrote:

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> Mick, I'm with Jah on this - DM, I thought that

> was a great post: lucid, humane and spot on.

>

Well if you agree with DM's "NOCD" comment then that surprises me Rosie.

(although I agree I'm not SE21 material, not sure I want to be either though)

[RosieH]

Ah, I took that to be tongue-in-cheek DM persona Mick. It was the exclamation mark what swung it.

[Mick Mac]

Hmm....

(learned that from Jah - means polite disagreement, I think)

[Mick Mac]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> She's a fallen woman Mick.

Only in my mind Jah, but I doubt she is too concerned about that.